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Non-United football chat
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Lazarus
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6 years ago

Sid wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Sid wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Sid wrote:Did you previously think nobody rated em
Yeah that's right, just like everything else i had no experience or opinion on anything before i read your copious written thoughts. Fuck to think at one stage you got compliments on here.... Maybe that's where it's all gone wrong.
When do you ever give an opinion? Never seen it myself, just your usual crap unwitty snidey replies

4 thousand and odd of those as well, unbelievable
Sid you wouldn't read it, you'd do what you do with everybody's posts, dismiss it, misrepresent it and then decide i was being racist, sexist, anti muslin, homophobic, pro Tory, the wrong shade of Labour, the wrong kind of protester, pro badger killing, wrong kind of music listening, rare bird egg eating, poor bating, anarchy hating, pro Capitalism, pro English football idiot who needs you to put me right. And all this from a person who has nothing to offer regarding experience of life, you know, work, family, experiences that lead to forming a person. Or are you just what you seem? An angry lonely man reading to much internet.

As for snidey, that's specially for you, or should i say your the one who hates it because it's aimed at puncturing your pomposity. Have you not noticed your the only one who moans about me whereas you piss people off regularly or at least the few who still read your waffle and can be bothered to reply.

Wonder if we counted the words written who'd be top of the list on here.........
Yeah tbf I didn't read any of that because it's two big chunks of text and it will just be whinging

I can understand why you don't give opinions though, when the last time you did it was "nobody rates him" gate
A least i'm only whinging about you.
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
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redzebs
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6 years ago

Bro down
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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lkhmffsstopmovingabout
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6 years ago

Lazarus wrote:
lkhmffsstopmovingabout wrote:sids too entrenched in his persona tbf, wheres all the craic gone about hull and that

I tried making that point but he doesn't see it. It's everyone else not Sid.
tory majority related tbf, sids sanity collateral damage
lkhm

hoofing
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Alfonso Bedoya
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6 years ago

Sid wrote:
Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Sid wrote:It's what we were on about in the other thread, that even when we had the best teams in Europe, the special players never came here

Now we have the richest clubs, they still won't come

Do you agree with that now? That we can't compete with these two
No... the problem is, no one can make any sort of argument, that criticises another countrys football without running into "The Sid"...

Real and Barca are miles ahead of all other clubs, except perhaps for Bayern... that's universally accepted... but as soon as anyone tries to put their superiority into perspective, by showing the unfair advantage they've got in their league, you feel it's your mission to argue on their behalf, as if there isn't an unfair advantage, or even if there is, how dare someone from England point it out... because well, we're fuckin English!!!

I've never "boasted" about the Premier Leagues financial muscle... I've stated it as a fact, because it is, a fact... I'm no more happy about City and Chelseas dodgy finances than you are, but having said that, I at least acknowledge that without them, England would be as lopsided as Germany, because of Uniteds financial clout... but... if you'd have at all noticed my opinion around here over the past few years, you'd know that I'd like to see United run as non profit, using it's immense wealth to keep ticket prices down, and give freely to charitiy...

Anyway... even that is beside the point... without stirring this up all over again... what started all this, was my argument that the Premier League is the wealthiest league... (I'm pretty sure I even said, whether you think that's a good or bad thing)... and that in time, the PL will become the destination of the best talent... now, I can totally understand if you disagree with that... but I'm sick of you trying to make out like it's the, "little Englander" in me, defending some colonial, imperialistic fuckin ideal... I've got no problem whatsoever waggin my cynical finger at this country and all its many faults... but it's not Englands fault, that Spain CHOOSES to run it's league for the benefit of the top 2 teams, to the detriment of the rest...
"The Sid" come off it

All this "defending colonialism, imperialism" come on now ffs, you're talking out of your arse, Alf. Laz comes out wth that bullshit n all, you little tit. When have I ever called you a colonialist? Imperialist? Little Englander?

All I'm saying is there was - not anymore - a bit of arrogance in your boasting about the Prem's riches. And I reckon it came from a midly patriotic place.

No need to exaggerate like Laz does because he has nothing else
Maybe I am exaggerating, but I'm not wrong... you don't half go on the fuckin offensive whenever anyone criticizes from an English perspective... as if being English forbids you from being critical... I'm not taking offense lightly Sid... we've been here many times before, over the same thing, and you're STILL doing it... "midly patriotic place"... it's not about patriotism. ..it's my argument that, whether you, or I or anyone else likes it or not, the Premier league has marketed itself better than any other league... and that, in my opinion will eventually lead to a new order... they might play the best football in Spain NOW... but what about 5 years from now, when Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola, and any other top manager who wants the best wages, the biggest budgets, and the biggest global audience is working in England??? will all the top players STILL be preferring Spain then? You might think they will, I don't... Real and Barca have a ton of prestige... but they've also got the money... what happens when/if Spain decides to distribute the telly money more fairly??? Real and Barca already operate at the very limits of their finances, in fact, they both run in the red, because of their obsession with the very elite players... they're struggling to afford them now, and yet, they've still got to have the next, newest best... if they can't afford these players, then these players will end up elsewhere... look what happened to the strength of the Italian league when their finances were hit... and Italy can rival Spain in every way, as far as catering for sun loving, Latin players... but no longer for wages... And you can't bring past decades into it, because the whole bloody football landscape is changing... the truth is, and I bet you'll even agree with this, if South America had the money, and exposure that the English league has, it would easily run away with the global market...

As far as England becoming THE league... I'd actually argue that would be a bad thing... in my opinion, the best era for football was when Italy was strong, and Milan and Juventus rivalled Real and Barca for the best... the worst thing is for any one league to run away with all the talent... it makes even the champs league a farce...

Anyway... I'm done... again... I keep getting dragged into this argument, and I've had enough... it's my own fault, cause I don't know enough to shut up... see it as you like, call it what you want... I'm finished...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Lazarus
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6 years ago

lkhmffsstopmovingabout wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
lkhmffsstopmovingabout wrote:sids too entrenched in his persona tbf, wheres all the craic gone about hull and that

I tried making that point but he doesn't see it. It's everyone else not Sid.
tory majority related tbf, sids sanity collateral damage

:))
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
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redzebs
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6 years ago

:ymapplause:
lkhmffsstopmovingabout wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
lkhmffsstopmovingabout wrote:sids too entrenched in his persona tbf, wheres all the craic gone about hull and that

I tried making that point but he doesn't see it. It's everyone else not Sid.
tory majority related tbf, sids sanity collateral damage
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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Sid
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6 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Sid wrote:
Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Sid wrote:It's what we were on about in the other thread, that even when we had the best teams in Europe, the special players never came here

Now we have the richest clubs, they still won't come

Do you agree with that now? That we can't compete with these two
No... the problem is, no one can make any sort of argument, that criticises another countrys football without running into "The Sid"...

Real and Barca are miles ahead of all other clubs, except perhaps for Bayern... that's universally accepted... but as soon as anyone tries to put their superiority into perspective, by showing the unfair advantage they've got in their league, you feel it's your mission to argue on their behalf, as if there isn't an unfair advantage, or even if there is, how dare someone from England point it out... because well, we're fuckin English!!!

I've never "boasted" about the Premier Leagues financial muscle... I've stated it as a fact, because it is, a fact... I'm no more happy about City and Chelseas dodgy finances than you are, but having said that, I at least acknowledge that without them, England would be as lopsided as Germany, because of Uniteds financial clout... but... if you'd have at all noticed my opinion around here over the past few years, you'd know that I'd like to see United run as non profit, using it's immense wealth to keep ticket prices down, and give freely to charitiy...

Anyway... even that is beside the point... without stirring this up all over again... what started all this, was my argument that the Premier League is the wealthiest league... (I'm pretty sure I even said, whether you think that's a good or bad thing)... and that in time, the PL will become the destination of the best talent... now, I can totally understand if you disagree with that... but I'm sick of you trying to make out like it's the, "little Englander" in me, defending some colonial, imperialistic fuckin ideal... I've got no problem whatsoever waggin my cynical finger at this country and all its many faults... but it's not Englands fault, that Spain CHOOSES to run it's league for the benefit of the top 2 teams, to the detriment of the rest...
"The Sid" come off it

All this "defending colonialism, imperialism" come on now ffs, you're talking out of your arse, Alf. Laz comes out wth that bullshit n all, you little tit. When have I ever called you a colonialist? Imperialist? Little Englander?

All I'm saying is there was - not anymore - a bit of arrogance in your boasting about the Prem's riches. And I reckon it came from a midly patriotic place.

No need to exaggerate like Laz does because he has nothing else
Maybe I am exaggerating, but I'm not wrong... you don't half go on the fuckin offensive whenever anyone criticizes from an English perspective... as if being English forbids you from being critical... I'm not taking offense lightly Sid... we've been here many times before, over the same thing, and you're STILL doing it... "midly patriotic place"... it's not about patriotism. ..it's my argument that, whether you, or I or anyone else likes it or not, the Premier league has marketed itself better than any other league... and that, in my opinion will eventually lead to a new order... they might play the best football in Spain NOW... but what about 5 years from now, when Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola, and any other top manager who wants the best wages, the biggest budgets, and the biggest global audience is working in England??? will all the top players STILL be preferring Spain then? You might think they will, I don't... Real and Barca have a ton of prestige... but they've also got the money... what happens when/if Spain decides to distribute the telly money more fairly??? Real and Barca already operate at the very limits of their finances, in fact, they both run in the red, because of their obsession with the very elite players... they're struggling to afford them now, and yet, they've still got to have the next, newest best... if they can't afford these players, then these players will end up elsewhere... look what happened to the strength of the Italian league when their finances were hit... and Italy can rival Spain in every way, as far as catering for sun loving, Latin players... but no longer for wages... And you can't bring past decades into it, because the whole bloody football landscape is changing... the truth is, and I bet you'll even agree with this, if South America had the money, and exposure that the English league has, it would easily run away with the global market...

As far as England becoming THE league... I'd actually argue that would be a bad thing... in my opinion, the best era for football was when Italy was strong, and Milan and Juventus rivalled Real and Barca for the best... the worst thing is for any one league to run away with all the talent... it makes even the champs league a farce...

Anyway... I'm done... again... I keep getting dragged into this argument, and I've had enough... it's my own fault, cause I don't know enough to shut up... see it as you like, call it what you want... I'm finished...
I hear you, I really do. But I just can't imagine a time when we get Messi, Ronaldo, Guardiola, Klopp and Mourinho all in the same league, our league. This is why I thought there was a bit of patriotism involved because you have to think really fucking highly of the Prem, which in terms of quality is average, in order to believe we can attract that lot. And for the record I don't think any league could attract all of those

The Prem's rich clubs can go wild with money. Nobody can match City being backed by the richest famly in the world - yet the best still don't come

So for me it's about more than money, it has to be. Lifestyle, weather, but also success. Barca have a culture of success that is carried on down the line, and that attracts players who want to win things. It's the same with Messi, it works for him at Barca, he's breaking all the records, is it 3 or 4 European Cups now I forget. He's onto a really special thing as potentially the greatest footballer ever, so why threaten that by moving to a new club, city, league, teammates, training regime etc.

Also there's the fact that players want to feel special. If you get together too many big names in one dressing room it's hard to give them all the special treatment they demand. Not just because they won't get birthday cakes, but because they might not play as often as they'd like

Another point that I can't be arsed going into is that some managers might dodge the Prem because because of the football culture here. It's obvious a lot of us want attacking football. Like Martinez had to ride it out at Swansea. Even after he got em promoted playing possession based football, fans were holding up banners saying 442. It's the same for British coaches who don't manage abroad - other leagues won't be having their style of football

So basically there's just more to football than money
Spudiator
Star Man
Posts: 736
Joined: 8 years ago
Location: Horsham

6 years ago

From the BBC Sportsday Live:
The London Evening Standard reports that Chelsea expect to complete the £8m signing of Stoke keeper Asmir Begovic this week, despite late competition from Manchester United.

Chelsea have already agreed personal terms on a four-year contract worth £75,000-a-week for the Bosnia international, who will become the new back-up to Thibaut Courtois.

Stoke rejected an initial offer worth £6m last Monday, but Chelsea were prepared to pay another £2m and are also set to loan them either winger Victor Moses or striker Patrick Bamford.
Seriously, at what point did this stop being tapping-up and starting being just the normal way things are now? It seems to have become so commonplace that nobody even bats an eyelid any more at a player agreeing terms presumably before they've even been given permission by the selling club to talk to the player!

On a similar note, I saw mention earlier on BBC that Real Madrid haven't even made an actual offer for de Gea yet, despite how much talk there is among the media and seemingly every player under the sun talking about it as if it's already a done-deal! Again, when Real's own players are talking about one of our players that they haven't even bid for yet, surely that should be considered bringing the game into disrepute, and yet everyone shrugs it off as if it's just "one of those things". Have they actually changed the rules/definition of tapping up, or is this just the player-power juggernaut coming full-circle?
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bman2
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6 years ago

Us selling Ronaldo changed the direction of the league: biggest player at the biggest club, and still determined to leave, it sent a message. We could have been as dominant as Barca or close to it at least, if we'd spent the money to build a great team around Ronaldo. We were in the CL final 3 times in 4 years, or something like that.

Instead, we sold Ronaldo and bought ... Valencia. City were just a gobshite outfit paying huge money for other clubs' problem players, and Chelsea without Mourinho was nothing to get excited about. Arsenal have been an academy for other top clubs for years now.
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Sid
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6 years ago

I'm with you, Bman. Losing a special player like Ronaldo signalled the decline of United's squad and the decline of the quality of the Prem (just calm down, Laz, you imperialist racist you)

The season before Ronaldo left we knocked Barca out of the Champions League so we were arguably better than them. You also had 3 English clubs in the last 4 of the CL because we had the best teams in Europe, playing in the strongest league in Europe. Now it has all changed.

So playing in the toughest league, with the best teams in Europe wasn't enough to keep a special player like Ron, neither was him being the highest earner at the club/in the league nor being the total centre of the attention
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