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Sid
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2 months ago

FuB wrote:
2 months ago
Sid wrote:
2 months ago
Ole didn't sign Van De Beek IMO. He can't have done, cos he would have played more by now even though IMO his overall game is limited.

It's more likely he was a reactionary signing pushed by Ed who was under pressure to deliver a player in summer, and Beek was perfect cos he's quality and a straight forward buy thanks to Van Der Sar.
I can't see that any of us have seen enough of Van der Beek in a United shirt to get any real idea of what his overall game really is. He's generally been shoehorned into positions and, more often than not, less than 10 minutes to try and affect a game that's already long gone south. His biggest limitation has been, well, actually getting a game.

I'm not convinced on the he's not an Ole signing line. It's not clear that any of the signings under Ole have actually been his choice, not even Bruno. My feeling is that Ole is so utterly risk averse he's too scared to make any kind of change. We see that game in game out with his limited tactics and glacial speed at identifying or even considering the need for a change and we've seen it with his persistence in using players like Lingard for months and months despite them offering nothing bar some bizarre notion of continuity. It's taken him fucking months to work out that Cavani is the only player we've got capable of properly leading the line. It was evident to the rest of creation from the first full game he played. Everything is playing it safe and often too little too late (a metaphor for Van der Beek's United career) when it doesn't go to plan.
I agree with the fact Ole is too conservative. But I just think Beek is far too similar to Fernandes for Ole to have made him a priority above a winger, CDM or CB. They're both high risk flair players that want to play in the same 'free role'. But Fernandes is miles better, so you start him every game. And cos Beek isn't a tackler, man marker, position player etc there's not much else he can do. Having said that there's been plenty of times he should have played but Ole has brought on a different forward instead. It's looking like Ole doesn't rate him which would again support the idea he wasn't an Ole signing. If the media stories are to be believed he was looking for a move in january.
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bman2
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2 months ago

Sid wrote:
2 months ago
FuB wrote:
2 months ago
Sid wrote:
2 months ago
Ole didn't sign Van De Beek IMO. He can't have done, cos he would have played more by now even though IMO his overall game is limited.

It's more likely he was a reactionary signing pushed by Ed who was under pressure to deliver a player in summer, and Beek was perfect cos he's quality and a straight forward buy thanks to Van Der Sar.
I can't see that any of us have seen enough of Van der Beek in a United shirt to get any real idea of what his overall game really is. He's generally been shoehorned into positions and, more often than not, less than 10 minutes to try and affect a game that's already long gone south. His biggest limitation has been, well, actually getting a game.

I'm not convinced on the he's not an Ole signing line. It's not clear that any of the signings under Ole have actually been his choice, not even Bruno. My feeling is that Ole is so utterly risk averse he's too scared to make any kind of change. We see that game in game out with his limited tactics and glacial speed at identifying or even considering the need for a change and we've seen it with his persistence in using players like Lingard for months and months despite them offering nothing bar some bizarre notion of continuity. It's taken him fucking months to work out that Cavani is the only player we've got capable of properly leading the line. It was evident to the rest of creation from the first full game he played. Everything is playing it safe and often too little too late (a metaphor for Van der Beek's United career) when it doesn't go to plan.
I agree with the fact Ole is too conservative. But I just think Beek is far too similar to Fernandes for Ole to have made him a priority above a winger, CDM or CB. They're both high risk flair players that want to play in the same 'free role'. But Fernandes is miles better, so you start him every game. And cos Beek isn't a tackler, man marker, position player etc there's not much else he can do. Having said that there's been plenty of times he should have played but Ole has brought on a different forward instead. It's looking like Ole doesn't rate him which would again support the idea he wasn't an Ole signing. If the media stories are to be believed he was looking for a move in january.
Why do you say Beek isn’t a tackle, man marker etc? I don’t think he’s been given the chance to show what he is at all.

The problem I think is that Beek has been developed as a Dutch midfielder. He’s used to having possession, being on a team that moves together to open up passes. We’re a counterattacking team. Ole is just riding on the system that Jose built; he puts more emphasis on the attack, which is good, but the defence is shitter, which is bad. But when we have the ball, we either get it forward quick, or else we knock it about with no clear plan or system of play.
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swampash
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2 months ago

Beek looks to me to be the sort of rounded midfielder we need to play every week. If we are stuck with playing a 4231, you need someone in the double 6 role that can go box to box and provide the link to attack and take the pressure off Bruno. Pogba has also shown he can do it too, but is weaker at defending.
From ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggedy beasties and things that go bump in the night, Good Lord deliver us...and while you're at it, a bit of a helping hand with hobbits wouldn't go amiss...
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FuB
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2 months ago

bman2 wrote:
2 months ago
FuB wrote:
2 months ago
Sid wrote:
2 months ago
Ole didn't sign Van De Beek IMO. He can't have done, cos he would have played more by now even though IMO his overall game is limited.

It's more likely he was a reactionary signing pushed by Ed who was under pressure to deliver a player in summer, and Beek was perfect cos he's quality and a straight forward buy thanks to Van Der Sar.
I can't see that any of us have seen enough of Van der Beek in a United shirt to get any real idea of what his overall game really is. He's generally been shoehorned into positions and, more often than not, less than 10 minutes to try and affect a game that's already long gone south. His biggest limitation has been, well, actually getting a game.

I'm not convinced on the he's not an Ole signing line. It's not clear that any of the signings under Ole have actually been his choice, not even Bruno. My feeling is that Ole is so utterly risk averse he's too scared to make any kind of change. We see that game in game out with his limited tactics and glacial speed at identifying or even considering the need for a change and we've seen it with his persistence in using players like Lingard for months and months despite them offering nothing bar some bizarre notion of continuity. It's taken him fucking months to work out that Cavani is the only player we've got capable of properly leading the line. It was evident to the rest of creation from the first full game he played. Everything is playing it safe and often too little too late (a metaphor for Van der Beek's United career) when it doesn't go to plan.
Scared to make subs, scared to rotate the squad.
Yeah. Exactly what i mean. It might be ok if sticking to a safe formula was bringing in the results but, more often than not, it's what's making us stagnate and get complacent.
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swampash
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2 months ago

With the squad we have, even with its known weaknesses, a top manager would be ringing the changes in selections and tactics to put the wind up anyone in the Premiership. And we could still be making CL progress. DDG, Hercules and Lindelflop would have been dropped and the captaincy would be with Bruno or McT instead of flat footed Hercules.
There are plenty of good options in the squad, but you need to know what they are and have the skill and ambition to make them work. Instead every team we face knows in advance what our tactics and team selection will be.
It is really frustrating that so many of us here can see that but Baggins can’t.
From ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggedy beasties and things that go bump in the night, Good Lord deliver us...and while you're at it, a bit of a helping hand with hobbits wouldn't go amiss...
fat maradona
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2 months ago

tbf, we have a pretty decent squad for the first time in years. And also take into account we have one of the best U23 teams in a generation and some of those lads should see first team action in the next couple of seasons. A manager with a plan could make good use of that and we might actually even believe 'em when they tell us it's a 3 year Plan. I can't take this knee jerk mgmt seriously, they don't know if they need to buy or not buy or sell or not sell or change, it's all let's see what happens and then we'll make a call. Sounds like the current Govt tbf.
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