vs Basel

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Sid
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2 years ago

Or just my opinion. You could offer yours or you could post snidey bitter shite as per.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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2 years ago

Ok... my opinion is, we'll win... and Ibs and Pogba will get more game time, and we'll look better than we've looked in weeks, because they're both top players, who will make us look better in spite of Mourinhos dour tactics... and I'll be happy enough with that... because it's progress... And you'll no doubt find summat to to moan about!

I expect like most here, that Mourinho will be off in the summer, and we'll suffer for it, because the next manager will have to start again... Mourinho might be a dull, petulant arsehole, but at least he could make the best out the shitty management structure we've got... ultimately, with or without Mourinho, we're a fucked outfit, until there's change at the very top...

But, what do I know... I'm just a schlepp, hoping we'll be a top team again one day...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Sid
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2 years ago

See now that's a decent post. That's the old Alf. It's pretty much what I think as well tbf.
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dozer
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2 years ago

Jose fucked up in his tactics against Pool. He treated us like a B grade team and we've been paying the price since. That approach didn't work against Chelsea who have better players than Liverpool. And even if it did, we'd have earned one point while City had 3.

People say this is how Jose is, but I don't remember him doing this crap at other teams. He was defensive, yes but no so negative. Chelsea x2, Inter, Real etc wasn't so negative against the big teams. United played like how a weaker team would play against the big sides. It's very odd.

He doesn't rate a lot of our players and those players know it.

We'll thump Basel and United will be entertaining again. tbf to Jose, the football has been entertaining apart from the big games. And again, the issue is not that the big games were boring. Even Fergie played boring defensive football against the strong teams. The issue is setting United to play like the weaker side.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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2 years ago

I agree with a lot of that Dozer... but Mourinhos teams have always played shitty football... but he's always had one of the best sides in the league he was working in... but now he's working in a league where the best team is miles ahead of everyone else, and there's plenty of competition for the next 4/5 spots... he's being even more pragmatic, just focussing on keeping us 2nd, maybe 3rd... it's the Bitters title to lose, and I reckon Mourinho doesn't like being in a league where his team isn't good enough to win... if the Glazers don't back him with enough money to catch City next year, I think he'll go...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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dozer
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2 years ago

City is better than United, but lets disregard that for a sec and assume City isn't in the competition.
United would be the best team in the league, based off this season.
Jose's played against Spurs, Chelsea and Pool and he's played like United are the weaker team holding off attacks. This is not just defensive football, this is playing like the weaker team.

That isn't "classic Jose". Jose in the past has played defensive but he's never played like the weaker team. When Jose managed Chelsea, United looked like the weaker team more often than not.
So why the change now?

Jose clearly doesn't rate the team. He thinks United are better than others in finishing off weaker teams but he doesn't think we can match up to the stronger players. I can't think of any other explanation. He probably thinks most of our players are better flat track bullys than other big clubs and he hopes to win the league with this strategy.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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2 years ago

I think we're saying the same thing from different angles... I think Mourinho doesn't rate our defense... which is why he dedicates extra support to protect it... but he might get away with that a bit more, if Pogba stays fit... without Pogba, we've got little creative quality between defense and attack... so it's long balls from back to front... if they stick, we attack, if they don't we defend... Pogba lets us play our way forward much better, and with him, we retain more possession...

Pogba allows Mourinho to molly-coddle our defense and still have an attacking threat that isn't just long balls...

We'll see, but we're just simply a different team with Pogba, than without...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Sid
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2 years ago

Jose's had 3 windows and 350m to sort out the defence though. To still be compromising our approach and sabotaging our attack to protect them is piss poor. By now it should be significantly improved. And it would be if Lindelof was a top player. But it looks like Jose's signed a dud. Maybe he'll turn it around in the new year and we'll be more solid. If not then it's a costly fuck up.

Tbf I don't think Jose's holding them back to protect the defence. it's just how he plays. In games against the riff he's taking massive risks by his standards by attacking like United are expected to do, by letting midfielders and wingbacks commit which leaves us open. But that's the 'drama' fans want. He'll be absolutely bricking it on the touchline in these games against the shite. He'll be sweating like a glass blowers arse. But he doesn't want to fall into the trap Gaal fell into, even though they're very similar in their approach. His problem is he the breaks on away from home and against anybody good which int acceptable, and is bringing him grief. He needs to find a balance between defence and attack. Not all out attack against riff raff and ultra conservative cowardly shit against rivals.

But he's a reactive manager, he adapts to the opposition, and comes from a conservative point of view. That's old school these days. These days managers like Pep, Klopp, even the cunt at Watford, have philosophies that they adapt a bit but mostly keep the same, and assert on the opposition.
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Sid
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2 years ago

Here's a really good post on the matter from the Caf:

I suppose there is a belief among some that you can build towards pro active football through making yourself solid first. I just find this such a fanciful notion. All the big clubs are looking to play pro active football nowadays and a big part of what they are trying to achieve is to implement it from early on. They direct every move from the transfer market, pre season, academy, DoF/manager selection towards that aim. This is why I am highly sceptical that one can start off by solidifying the base through making oneself hard to beat and that this will somehow transform itself into competing with the elite of Europe and going against them toe to toe.

Another point is there are some who like to argue that managers are either pragmatic or idealists. It is not entirely wrong but highly misleading as I think it is ridiculous to assume that the very people whose jobs depend on results somehow do not care about them as much as the average fan who is only invested in those results once or twice a week. The difference for me is that there are those who address the results getting task through preparing for each game as they come whereas others who feel that the secret is to improve a specific game to a point where results will follow naturally. This I feel is something that changed in modern football where more and more clubs and managers are following the second approach. This means more clubs are getting better at playing a very specific game, they are better at controlling possession, being pro active and playing an attacking game. What this has led to is that whereas once the game to game approach was efficient as you had to mostly play against teams who do the same thing, nowadays, it is less so as more often than not, you come up against teams who are so much better drilled at what they do.

The last point brings us directly to our manager. Like most managers, Mourinho had a specific way of working, and like most successful managers, he is stubborn about it. The way he built that first Chelsea team is not that different to what he is doing with us really. The problem is that in the early '00s, the league was tactically inferior and so much behind in terms of possession and the positional game so many work on nowadays. This has meant that focusing on building a physically sound side that plays with a low block deep line and and relying on transitions and individual quality up front worked a treat. Defences were less equipped and more susceptible to the pure talents of individuals and midfields were not as good at pinning you back as they are today. It is in a way similar to how playing with two midfielders, two wingers and two strikers worked fine for us in the '90s due to no small part to the fact that most others did the same. Once this has changed, we had to change to as well.

This brings me to the bizarre non stop comparisons to Fergie's time, his approach and his every move. I am calling them bizarre because they assume as though there is one specific level and one specific approach that fits for all intents and purposes. You get fans arguing that since we were never as technical as Barcelona, there is no need for it today. Others will argue that since we often were happy with a draw away to our biggest rivals, the same applies today. The fact is no two eras are the same, the nature of competition and with it what is being demanded and required to succeed keep changing. It is just bizarre to measure yourself up against the past instead of your very direct rivals who you are actually playing against. Having said that, we hitched our wagon to Mourinho now, making more changes will probably set us back even more and any advantages that may come with it will be outweighed by the setbacks of yet more personnel turnover. This is why I feel unless we totally collapse, we might as well be patient now and work towards a more durable and ambitious direction from board level to prepare for the post Mourinho era which may come sooner rather than later.
Davel
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2 years ago

we all know the defence is poor, i`m not even that keen on bailly, who is our best but he`s caught out of position too many times for my likeing.
but when your defence consists of young,blind,smalling,lindeloff,valencia ,and jones to a lesser point.A few of these look good going forward , but cant defend for shit. You can see why we have 3 DM`s on at times,and no forward movement. to play this kind of football you need a scrapping bull up front the likes of (dogbreath or costa )to win and hold the cleared upfield ball. Against 2 or 3 defenders, deffo not ibra or lucky, and also a skilled winger as the out ball from winning the cleared ball (robben etc) not makedo wingers who have 1 good foot.

Its all make-do because the defenders he plays are not even northern prem quality.
Valencia isnt a right-back,Young isnt a left. These are wingers so the commitment the likes of a ashley cole tackle aint coming from either. Who has smalling bullied/owned he`s a ponce.
Limpoff isnt anything. Not tough/fast/self aware, either he has serious issues with the prem or is plain nothing. He needs to shut his mouth and play ,players in the correct position at the back ,who have heart, like a back 4 of shaw,rojo,bailly and tuan with fosu being the 5th if playing away,
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