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Sid
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6 years ago

RobDiablo wrote:
Sid wrote:Guaranteed every player who slags off Young for diving has dived themselves

They all do it, it's culture... Tackle the cultute rather than the individual
For me, there's a huge difference between having taken the occasional dive and being a serial diver. Keane may have dived, but Young, like Robert Pirès and Cowardly Cashley is a diver.
If you've dived once you're a diver

Like if you murdered someone once you're a murderer
Last edited by Sid on Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sid
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6 years ago

Dosdamt wrote:I'd like to think there's a difference between a win at all costs, go down whenever there's clumsy contact Neville-style pragmatism, and Young's YOU LOOKED AT ME WRONG style diving.
There isn't a "more honest" way to cheat. Diving and going down easily - it's all the same shit

You could easily say that Young's dive was more honest because there is contact, there is a tug, and he is running quickly so the slightest contact will knock him off his feet

You could even say Young dives so much because he's so desperate to gain an advantage, to win - more so than Terry who has dived/gone down easy/cheated less, therefore Young is the hero

It's just bullshit, the whole thing, people enjoy nailing certain individuals, part of the patomime and all that shite. But it's culture. These players want to gain every advantage possible.
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lkhmffsstopmovingabout
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6 years ago

when did terry dive
lkhm

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lkhmffsstopmovingabout
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6 years ago

sids sounding a bit like them posh rugby twats recently tbf

next hell be saying the refs aren't respected enough
lkhm

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RobDiablo
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6 years ago

Sid wrote:If you've dived once you're a diver... Like if you murdered someone once you're a murderer
While you are correct in an absolute, pedantic sort of way*, that is not how reputations work. If you attempted to label Keane a diver, most would laugh, but, if you call Young a diver, people will wonder why you are bothering to state the obvious.

*Does shoplifting a pack of gum as a kid make one a thief... for life?
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Sid
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6 years ago

That's why labels are shite

That's what Neville said, and it's what I'm saying; if you label Young a diver then so is Messi and Knobs lionhearts, as much as it pains him
Dosdamt
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6 years ago

Sid wrote:
Dosdamt wrote:I'd like to think there's a difference between a win at all costs, go down whenever there's clumsy contact Neville-style pragmatism, and Young's YOU LOOKED AT ME WRONG style diving.
There isn't a "more honest" way to cheat. Diving and going down easily - it's all the same shit

You could easily say that Young's dive was more honest because there is contact, there is a tug, and he is running quickly so the slightest contact will knock him off his feet

You could even say Young dives so much because he's so desperate to gain an advantage, to win - more so than Terry who has dived/gone down easy/cheated less, therefore Young is the hero

It's just bullshit, the whole thing, people enjoy nailing certain individuals, part of the patomime and all that shite. But it's culture. These players want to gain every advantage possible.
No, I disagree. If someone is making real contact with a player - as in, a clumsy shite tackle that clips an ankle while running, or a shove in the back in the box, pragmatism dictates you take that contact and say thanks very much to get an advantage. Like it or not, that is top level sport.

However, the kind of shenanigan that Young plays in - a tug on the arm would need to be substantial to send him down, not a tiny tug like during this game; the leaping over trailed legs without even a hint of contact - is not the same thing.

It isn't the consequence of the opposition making a mistake while tackling - it is simply cheating.
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6 years ago

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dozer
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6 years ago

I don't get the outrage over diving specifically.
Diving isn't cheating. Diving is a foul... like a mistimed tackle, a tug, a shove, a defender attempting to body check a striker who would otherwise be through on goal etc.
In all these cases the player usually claims innocence i.e. they're trying to con the referee in believing that there was no foul.
If all these aren't cheating then I don't see why diving should be. Now using performance enhancing drugs, spot fixing, match fixing - that's cheating.
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dozer wrote:I don't get the outrage over diving specifically.
Diving isn't cheating. Diving is a foul... like a mistimed tackle, a tug, a shove, a defender attempting to body check a striker who would otherwise be through on goal etc.
In all these cases the player usually claims innocence i.e. they're trying to con the referee in believing that there was no foul.
If all these aren't cheating then I don't see why diving should be. Now using performance enhancing drugs, spot fixing, match fixing - that's cheating.
Wow, congratulations on being the wrongest person in the history of the world! Of course diving is a form of cheating, mistimed tackles, tugs and shoves are part of the game, albeit where it hasn't gone according to plan. Diving is an act of deception, simple as that. You could argue that body-checking a player is similarly cheating, especially if it's done very cynically for no reason other than to deny them an advantage they gained fairly.
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