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dozer
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6 years ago

ashleyfuckingyoung wrote:Has his attitude been that bad? OK, he kicked up a fuss 2 years ago when he got his new contract. And although his approach may not have been great and he was badly advised, he was only calling out what many reds have been saying for 3 years or more. His words look prophetic now.
He's not a supporter red. He's working for the club. You don't say that to the public about your colleagues.
I don't think he should be dropped to accomodate a 4-3-3 because he's a world class player but I do believe he's going to leave so United better look for replacements quickly!
Kagawa - many in the forum love him but I don't know why. Let him be in the squad but I wouldn't consider him as a nailed on Rooney replacement. I'd rather we look outside for a world class replacement - it doesn't have to be like for like, but the goals/assists shouldn't be lost.
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Edfuckingwoodward
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6 years ago

dozer wrote:He's not a supporter red. He's working for the club. You don't say that to the public about your colleagues.

I take that point, which is where I think he went about things the wrong way, however he was absolutely right in his view that the quality of the squad was being diluted. That's what we're seeing isn't it? The proof is before our eyes. I don't think it was a 'toys out of the pram' moment, I genuinely think he was concerned about the quality of the squad going forward and our intent to continue developing and signing too drawer players. And I'm in 100% agreement with that. So I can't slate him for having the same view, even if he was misguided in how he made his stand.
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Felwin
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6 years ago

ashleyfuckingyoung wrote:
dozer wrote:He's not a supporter red. He's working for the club. You don't say that to the public about your colleagues.

I take that point, which is where I think he went about things the wrong way, however he was absolutely right in his view that the quality of the squad was being diluted. That's what we're seeing isn't it? The proof is before our eyes. I don't think it was a 'toys out of the pram' moment, I genuinely think he was concerned about the quality of the squad going forward and our intent to continue developing and signing too drawer players. And I'm in 100% agreement with that. So I can't slate him for having the same view, even if he was misguided in how he made his stand.
I'm sorry, but that comment on the quality of the squad was defnitely a 'toys out of the pram' moment. The fact he may now seem prophetic is beside the point. It was a genuine feeling amongst most football fans at the time that Citeh were the next big thing and Rooney wanted in on the higher-wage party.

This notion that he is using transfer requests to either outline our shortcomings, or give the current team a boot up the arse, is absolutely ridiculous.
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Edfuckingwoodward
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6 years ago

Felwin wrote: I'm sorry, but that comment on the quality of the squad was defnitely a 'toys out of the pram' moment. The fact he may now seem prophetic is beside the point. It was a genuine feeling amongst most football fans at the time that Citeh were the next big thing and Rooney wanted in on the higher-wage party.

This notion that he is using transfer requests to either outline our shortcomings, or give the current team a boot up the arse, is absolutely ridiculous.
I think he's been badly advised. And I have no doubt that he'll want to make as much from the game as he can, while he can - who wouldn't. But at the core of it, I think what he wants is a united team competing with and against the very best, with quality all over the park and being led by for the purpose of winning trophies. That's what he signed up to. But we're no longer about that.

To be blunt, I can't blame him for being fucked off, because I feel exactly the same.
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Felwin
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6 years ago

ashleyfuckingyoung wrote:
Felwin wrote: I'm sorry, but that comment on the quality of the squad was defnitely a 'toys out of the pram' moment. The fact he may now seem prophetic is beside the point. It was a genuine feeling amongst most football fans at the time that Citeh were the next big thing and Rooney wanted in on the higher-wage party.

This notion that he is using transfer requests to either outline our shortcomings, or give the current team a boot up the arse, is absolutely ridiculous.
I think he's been badly advised. And I have no doubt that he'll want to make as much from the game as he can, while he can - who wouldn't. But at the core of it, I think what he wants is a united team competing with and against the very best, with quality all over the park and being led by for the purpose of winning trophies. That's what he signed up to. But we're no longer about that.

To be blunt, I can't blame him for being fucked off, because I feel exactly the same.
You're right, he's been badly advised. But when he did his first transfer request, it'd be difficult to argue that United were 'no longer about trophies'.
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Edfuckingwoodward
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6 years ago

Felwin wrote: You're right, he's been badly advised. But when he did his first transfer request, it'd be difficult to argue that United were 'no longer about trophies'.
I disagree. I think Rooney had become disillusioned by a series of events over a few years. I could be completely wrong - it wouldn't be the first time - but here's my take on it:

The quality of the side has been steadily diluted ever since the transfer of Ronaldo in 2009. That transfer was always going to happen, but what we should have done is immediately invest in 2-3 top drawer signings, both to make a statement and more importantly to keep the squad of a high standard. But we didn't. We also let Tevez go and our response to losing top 2 world class players was to sign Antonio Valencia, Gabriel Obertan and Michael Owen. That was the first biggest indication that our strategy going forward would be to give the illusion of being able to compete for trophies, whilst cutting player expenditure as much as possible. We didn't win the league that year, but only Chelsea were really any good anyway.

The following summer we brought in Smalling and Chicharito. Decent prospects, but still no sign of bringing in proven talent to not only 'replace' Tevez and Ronaldo, but to keep us at the cutting edge. We won the league in 10/11, but that papered over cracks. Arsenal had been imploding for a couple of years, City's splurge had yet to yield any consistency or effective approach and Chelsea continued to dick about. We had no real challenger and won the league by default.

Summer of 11/12, we signed De Gea. No argument there, but we HAD to sign a keeper as Van der Sar had retired. We signed Phil Jones - fair enough, but then pissed on our chips by signing Ashley Young and re-signing Scholesy (fuck me, of ever there was proof of what our signing policy had become). Still not enough talent being brought in considering the aging of Giggs, Scholes, Rio, Evra, Vidiv etc, the illness problems with Fletcher and the inability of Anderson or Nani to fulfill their potential.

City win the league and Fergie's response is to blame a sub-standard goal difference rather than look at the glaring deficiencies in the squad that caused us to drop points and piss away what should have been an unassailable lead. And aside from City, the rest of the least continued to be poor in relation to previous years.

Over the last 2 years, Chelsea have improved, so have City, Spurs and Liverpool. Arsenal have been reinvigorated by Ozil, and even teams like Southampton and Everton are improving. We've barely stood still, in fact we've gone backwards. And what we're seeing on the pitch is the consequence.

Against this backdrop, Rooney has been asked to play out of position in order to fill gaps that shouldn't be there. He's seen the team around him turn from top drawer to mediocre and he's become fucked off.

I think the persona of him being a money-hungry gobshite suits the clubs agenda. I genuinely don't believe that his motivating factor when he asked to get away in 2010 was money. I think he saw what was happening, called it out and was then rounded on by the club and given a wedge to re-sign, probably with some promises about new signings in the pipeline. The fact that he was then cast as a money grabber worked for the club - because it was better than the alternative of him gaining support for the idea that the quality of the side was becoming an afterthought. I think the way in which he was cast afterward pissed Rooney off, added to a lack of talent being added to the side and the way in which he was moved all around the side added to perhaps a grievance against comments made by Fergie to the press has led to where we are now.
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RobDiablo
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6 years ago

ashleyfuckingyoung wrote:I think the persona of [Rooney] being a money-hungry gobshite suits the clubs agenda. I genuinely don't believe that his motivating factor when he asked to get away in 2010 was money. I think he saw what was happening, called it out and was then rounded on by the club and given a wedge to re-sign, probably with some promises about new signings in the pipeline...
What makes the "money-hungry gobshite" label so easy to believe, is the manner in which Rooney has behaved since signing that very lucrative contract. By signing, he implicitly accepted that things were going to stay pretty much the same, but the money was there to ease his pain. He did not keep his side of the bargain, however, deciding to show up unfit, overweight, and indifferent. Now, it appears that he's once again motivated enough to get fit and make an effort on the pitch... just as his contract is nearing expiration... what a coincidence.

Rooney is a tremendous talent (when he wants to be), but England is his club, United is just his job... for now. I hope he has a great season, inspiring someone to offer £40M or more for him, and I hope United are smart enough to take it.
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Edfuckingwoodward
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6 years ago

RobDiablo wrote:
ashleyfuckingyoung wrote:I think the persona of [Rooney] being a money-hungry gobshite suits the clubs agenda. I genuinely don't believe that his motivating factor when he asked to get away in 2010 was money. I think he saw what was happening, called it out and was then rounded on by the club and given a wedge to re-sign, probably with some promises about new signings in the pipeline...
What makes the "money-hungry gobshite" label so easy to believe, is the manner in which Rooney has behaved since signing that very lucrative contract. By signing, he implicitly accepted that things were going to stay pretty much the same, but the money was there to ease his pain. He did not keep his side of the bargain, however, deciding to show up unfit, overweight, and indifferent. Now, it appears that he's once again motivated enough to get fit and make an effort on the pitch... just as his contract is nearing expiration... what a coincidence.

Rooney is a tremendous talent (when he wants to be), but England is his club, United is just his job... for now. I hope he has a great season, inspiring someone to offer £40M or more for him, and I hope United are smart enough to take it.
He didn't look that indifferent when he scored 34 goals in 2011/12. He's on the verge of being our all time record goalscorer, how can you achieve that without really giving a shit?

What good would selling him for £40m do? or £50m or £60m? We have no intent and/or ability to bring in top drawer players. If he leaves, we'll be a poorer team for it.
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dozer
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6 years ago

No one's paying 40m for Rooney with a year left
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RobDiablo
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6 years ago

ashleyfuckingyoung wrote:He didn't look that indifferent when he scored 34 goals in 2011/12. He's on the verge of being our all time record goalscorer, how can you achieve that without really giving a shit?
How did he look in 2012/2013; I believe his contract covered that period of time as well?

As for his accomplishments: over time, a few gifted players have managed to put up very good numbers while still clearly not performing to their potential. It's the fact that he buckles down and works constantly to improve that has turned Cristiano into one of the all-time best players in the world. Now, when someone mentions Ronaldo, people no longer think of the chunky Brazilian, they think of him. Rooney has chosen another, easier path.

Ultimately, though, you're right about the pointlessness of selling Rooney at any price, since the Glazers will keep the lion's share and not reinvest it in the squad.
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