vs Shakhtar Donetsk

Forum for match day threads
Dosdamt
Star Man
Posts: 842
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

Fellaini / Cleverley / Carrick + Kagawa, with Rooney / RvP up top. Width is overrated, movement is the key to modern football as Bayern have shown. United should operate a harder aggressive press on the ball with that 4-3-3, and fall into a 4-5-1 without the ball as a rigid shape.
Neil
First Teamer
Posts: 186
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

I would go with Carrick and Cleverley in the centre, with Nani on the right and Kagawa on the left. I can see Kagawa tucking in with the LB providing width on the left, personally I think we have to show some faith in the individuals who have the potential to unlock the opposition.

Kagawa is normally deployed from the left for Japan and is given a bit of freedom to an extent. We need to develop a way of getting Rooney and Kagawa in the same team, having a chance to roam a bit. We would expect the central 2 to track back and sit to cover.

A lot of British managers get fixated on work rate and players who are solid but we shouldn't forget how some of the continental teams do it. Look at Bayern and think back to Barcelona at their best, they still pick their best players but they train them to press the ball in a very coordinated way. You don't see workhorse players in those teams because everyone puts a shift in.

It doesn't make any sense to me to have our most technically gifted players sitting on the bench. Give them 10 straight games amongst the same midfield group to build some continuity - then fair enough if they don't perform then pick someone else.
lars072
Legend
Posts: 1738
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

Neil wrote:I would go with Carrick and Cleverley in the centre, with Nani on the right and Kagawa on the left. I can see Kagawa tucking in with the LB providing width on the left, personally I think we have to show some faith in the individuals who have the potential to unlock the opposition.

Kagawa is normally deployed from the left for Japan and is given a bit of freedom to an extent. We need to develop a way of getting Rooney and Kagawa in the same team, having a chance to roam a bit. We would expect the central 2 to track back and sit to cover.

A lot of British managers get fixated on work rate and players who are solid but we shouldn't forget how some of the continental teams do it. Look at Bayern and think back to Barcelona at their best, they still pick their best players but they train them to press the ball in a very coordinated way. You don't see workhorse players in those teams because everyone puts a shift in.

It doesn't make any sense to me to have our most technically gifted players sitting on the bench. Give them 10 straight games amongst the same midfield group to build some continuity - then fair enough if they don't perform then pick someone else.
Yeah I'd have to agree with those 4 above now that I've seen Fellaini. Too bad about Valencia's form and I doubt Januzaj and Zaha will get much of a chance to show what they can do. Anderson and Young should be nowhere near this team and Giggsy is a legend...but that's all. I agree that you have to play Kagawa and find a way to play both he and Rooney but not sure if DM wil do that. Kagawa and Chicharito will be gone in January I'm afraid.

Until we get this MF sorted, there's going to be more sorrow ahead for United supporters...
Neil
First Teamer
Posts: 186
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

Funnily enough, Everton had a highly effective left side pairing of Baines and Pienaar, they consistently contributed the majority of the team's attacking threat. But it can take time to develop the right level of understanding between players. I feel some sympathy for Moyes in the sense that he has been putting players in and they simply haven't turned up (Young, etc).

Looking in neutral light at the squad, you would jump in to pick Kagawa to offer creative spark, just as you would say Rooney and Van Persie both offer the biggest threat out of our four strikers. We know how inconsistent Nani is but it's no coincidence that two years ago he had a long stretch of matches starting in his best position on the right and at times looked incredibly good due to the level of confidence he built up.

Cleverley and Fellaini would offer the most to the team by staying as deep as possible, they don't seem to have the pace or technical ability to be incisive enough further forward. Certain matches might suit them better than others but in a 4-2-3-1 it would make sense to position them deep to close down space, press the ball and then play short passes to players who can actually do something useful with it.

I think as the season goes by, Moyes will work it out. Performances can't lie and he'll have felt let down by some of the players so far. It seems to be in his nature to be on the conservative side as a manager but the fact that he has shown trust in Januzaj is promising, at least he's prepared to give creative players a chance.
lars072
Legend
Posts: 1738
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

Neil wrote:Funnily enough, Everton had a highly effective left side pairing of Baines and Pienaar, they consistently contributed the majority of the team's attacking threat. But it can take time to develop the right level of understanding between players. I feel some sympathy for Moyes in the sense that he has been putting players in and they simply haven't turned up (Young, etc).

Looking in neutral light at the squad, you would jump in to pick Kagawa to offer creative spark, just as you would say Rooney and Van Persie both offer the biggest threat out of our four strikers. We know how inconsistent Nani is but it's no coincidence that two years ago he had a long stretch of matches starting in his best position on the right and at times looked incredibly good due to the level of confidence he built up.

Cleverley and Fellaini would offer the most to the team by staying as deep as possible, they don't seem to have the pace or technical ability to be incisive enough further forward. Certain matches might suit them better than others but in a 4-2-3-1 it would make sense to position them deep to close down space, press the ball and then play short passes to players who can actually do something useful with it.

I think as the season goes by, Moyes will work it out. Performances can't lie and he'll have felt let down by some of the players so far. It seems to be in his nature to be on the conservative side as a manager but the fact that he has shown trust in Januzaj is promising, at least he's prepared to give creative players a chance.

Um...Kagawa? He's our only creative MF player apart from Nani and neither of them have been given much of a chance. I'm pretty sure SAf bought Kagawa in becuase he thought Rooney was out the door. But he isn't (for now) and DM has both players at his disposal so why not play them both? You can always find a way to fit top players in your team and make it work so why not try it RVP up front with Rooney and Kagawa? What do we have to lose at the moment? Our performances have been mostly horrid so just go for it. And if Rooney is injured, then play Kagawa in the hole where he enjoyed so much success with Dortmund.
User avatar
dozer
Legend
Posts: 5161
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

Neil wrote:I would go with Carrick and Cleverley in the centre, with Nani on the right and Kagawa on the left. I can see Kagawa tucking in with the LB providing width on the left, personally I think we have to show some faith in the individuals who have the potential to unlock the opposition.

Kagawa is normally deployed from the left for Japan and is given a bit of freedom to an extent. We need to develop a way of getting Rooney and Kagawa in the same team, having a chance to roam a bit. We would expect the central 2 to track back and sit to cover.

A lot of British managers get fixated on work rate and players who are solid but we shouldn't forget how some of the continental teams do it. Look at Bayern and think back to Barcelona at their best, they still pick their best players but they train them to press the ball in a very coordinated way. You don't see workhorse players in those teams because everyone puts a shift in.

It doesn't make any sense to me to have our most technically gifted players sitting on the bench. Give them 10 straight games amongst the same midfield group to build some continuity - then fair enough if they don't perform then pick someone else.
You can't hae it both ways, give Kagawa 10 straight games and he flops then we'll go cursing Moyes for not delivering.
Kagawa is creative and talented yes, but he's been piss poor in most of the games he's played for us. He loses possession way too often and his teammates don't seem to want to pass to him - in his own words.
People were having a go at Fellaini after a couple of games but how Kagawa gets any credit for his diabolical performances is beyond me.
Even Young and Nani have given us some good performances, among the hoard of bad ones.
Let Kagawa play in the capital one cups and against maybe the weaker teams when we're winning, if he does well then he gets called up for the bigger games. That's how it should be.

Moyes even seems to prefer Januzaj over him and why not? He's been delivering.
User avatar
marlon
Legend
Posts: 5322
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

Would you say the same about Fellaini then? Been piss poor, loses possession way too often - let him play in the cups and vs. the weaker teams. If he earns it, play the big games...
User avatar
dozer
Legend
Posts: 5161
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

He hasn't been piss poor, he's lost possession only in the Shaktar game but he provided the chance for the goal - and how many games has he played? Kagawa has been given games, it's been more than a year - it's not exactly knee jerk is it?
User avatar
marlon
Legend
Posts: 5322
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

Kagawa is the guy who outscored all our other wingers combined last season. Why shouldn't he start?

Fellaini has won the ball for us 10 times this season. He's committed 10 fouls and been fouled 6 times. He's lost the ball 16 times. I expect him to improve (he can hardly get worse), but shouldn't he have to earn his way too? For comparison's sake, his competition, Cleverley, has won the ball 18 times. Committed 4 fouls and been fouled 9 times. Lost the ball 5 times.
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 23395
Joined: 6 years ago

6 years ago

The difference between Clev and Fellaini is that Fellaini is tall and can play in the hole meaning we can go long
Post Reply