To elk or not to elk

The original Den of Iniquity
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Lazarus
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Posts: 16182
Joined: 7 years ago

9 months ago

RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago
Sid wrote:
9 months ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago
Pikey McScum wrote:
9 months ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago

Again; that's an opinion that you are entitled to have, regardless of how misinformed it is.
Please - "inform" me....
Inform you of what? You have an opinion that hunting is abhorrent and that is incorrect.
So say why though innit. There can be legit reasons, like some communities rely on it etc. But the fact you're not saying suggests that ain't the case with you.
These are NOT subsistence hunts, rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked, if you are not picked you forfeit the cost of the application. The money raised from these hunts (licenses, permits, tags) is used by the Arizona Game & Fish, and Forestry Departments to help maintain the lands on which the hunts occur, otherwise that cost would have to be covered by federal and state taxes. I could purchase a half (or even a quarter) a cow from one of the local ranches, butchered that is between 4 to 8 hundred pounds and cost $750 - $1500 approximately. Of course you could buy the meat one steak at a time but then the cost becomes extremely expensive. A hunting license, drawing entry and tags will cost me about $150 and a butchered Elk will provide about 450 pounds. It is illegal not to maximize the amount of meat taken from a downed animal, the penalties are; fines and the loss of equipment used in the hunt (vehicles, planes, boats), weapons and camp equipment although it is usually just the fine.

These hunts are not just harvesting animals, the hunting areas cover hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of square miles, the animals have better sense of sight, hearing and smell, they are stronger and have better stamina. The rates for getting picked for these hunts is very low and not all those picked will be successful, the fulfilment rates is usually around the mid to high teens. If you choose not to eat meat that’s just fine, if you choose to have someone else kill and butcher your animal of choice, that also works. I will kill and eat my own animals thanks.
What a change for someone on here who takes a firm stance on something controversial and doesn't act like a defensive dickhead. Class answer. I just posted something very similar to this point about Lazio in another thread. If you believe in something back it up.

I'm a 30 year vegetarian and now gradually heading toward veganism, i've had a bit of a change of heart toward some kinds of hunting and animal husbandry. My father was a butcher and i've talked to hunters in the south of France and read and watched a lot of stuff recently about it. It's not for me, two weeks working in a pig slaughter house and trying to shoot a rabbit at 16 put me right off killing things.

Atm i'm trying to get my head around this......

https://www.wildireland.org/home

I found out about it two days ago..... Wtf! This is two miles away from where i grew up. Wolves and Grizzly bears!!!!??? This place is right next door...... http://www.whiteoakscentre.com/home

....is it just me?????? X_X
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
RedDevilinAZ
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Posts: 313
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: Prescott

9 months ago

Lazarus wrote:
9 months ago
Atm i'm trying to get my head around this......

https://www.wildireland.org/home

I found out about it two days ago..... Wtf! This is two miles away from where i grew up. Wolves and Grizzly bears!!!!??? This place is right next door...... http://www.whiteoakscentre.com/home

....is it just me?????? X_X
The thread is getting a little long and I have said all I want to on hunting but felt I had to comment on the drug treatment center.

The population growth has situations like White Oaks much more common and everyday normal, the Los Angeles hills and valleys are a prime example of encroachment into wilderness. There are some organizations (World Wildlife Federation, The Nature Conservatory ...) who will buy land specifically for it to remain in its native state - this drives developers up a tree. Unfortunately the addiction center example is much more common because it is profitable.

As for the Wild Ireland park, anything that gives people a chance to be in a natural setting and see animals in the wild is a wonderful thing, however I feel a sadness that parks like this are required in the first place.
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Lazarus
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Posts: 16182
Joined: 7 years ago

9 months ago

RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago
Lazarus wrote:
9 months ago
Atm i'm trying to get my head around this......

https://www.wildireland.org/home

I found out about it two days ago..... Wtf! This is two miles away from where i grew up. Wolves and Grizzly bears!!!!??? This place is right next door...... http://www.whiteoakscentre.com/home

....is it just me?????? X_X
The thread is getting a little long and I have said all I want to on hunting but felt I had to comment on the drug treatment center.

The population growth has situations like White Oaks much more common and everyday normal, the Los Angeles hills and valleys are a prime example of encroachment into wilderness. There are some organizations (World Wildlife Federation, The Nature Conservatory ...) who will buy land specifically for it to remain in its native state - this drives developers up a tree. Unfortunately the addiction center example is much more common because it is profitable.

As for the Wild Ireland park, anything that gives people a chance to be in a natural setting and see animals in the wild is a wonderful thing, however I feel a sadness that parks like this are required in the first place.
The only point I was making about the treatment center is that it seems a bad idea to have people struggling with life right next door to a Grizzly Bear enclosure.
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
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Alfonso Bedoya
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Posts: 13448
Joined: 7 years ago

9 months ago

RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago
Sid wrote:
9 months ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago
Pikey McScum wrote:
9 months ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago

Again; that's an opinion that you are entitled to have, regardless of how misinformed it is.
Please - "inform" me....
Inform you of what? You have an opinion that hunting is abhorrent and that is incorrect.
So say why though innit. There can be legit reasons, like some communities rely on it etc. But the fact you're not saying suggests that ain't the case with you.
These are NOT subsistence hunts, rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked, if you are not picked you forfeit the cost of the application. The money raised from these hunts (licenses, permits, tags) is used by the Arizona Game & Fish, and Forestry Departments to help maintain the lands on which the hunts occur, otherwise that cost would have to be covered by federal and state taxes. I could purchase a half (or even a quarter) a cow from one of the local ranches, butchered that is between 4 to 8 hundred pounds and cost $750 - $1500 approximately. Of course you could buy the meat one steak at a time but then the cost becomes extremely expensive. A hunting license, drawing entry and tags will cost me about $150 and a butchered Elk will provide about 450 pounds. It is illegal not to maximize the amount of meat taken from a downed animal, the penalties are; fines and the loss of equipment used in the hunt (vehicles, planes, boats), weapons and camp equipment although it is usually just the fine.

These hunts are not just harvesting animals, the hunting areas cover hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of square miles, the animals have better sense of sight, hearing and smell, they are stronger and have better stamina. The rates for getting picked for these hunts is very low and not all those picked will be successful, the fulfilment rates is usually around the mid to high teens. If you choose not to eat meat that’s just fine, if you choose to have someone else kill and butcher your animal of choice, that also works. I will kill and eat my own animals thanks.
Fuck off!

You couch your shitty defense of hunting with the typical crap about "eating what you kill", and "it's no different than gong down t' butchers"...

CUNT!!!! You expose yourself with this one simple line... "rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked"... "lucky enough to be picked"????

People like you make me fuckin puke... you're no different than the rich toffs supporting the "RIGHT", to get together with a bunch of like minded degenerates, on horseback, with a pack of dogs, running a poor fuckin fox to ground and calling it "sport"...

At least have the guts to call it what it is... you like to get your little gun out, and go shoot summat, cause it gives you a "Rambo" hard on.

Piece of shit!!!
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Lazarus
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Posts: 16182
Joined: 7 years ago

9 months ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
9 months ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago
Sid wrote:
9 months ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago
Pikey McScum wrote:
9 months ago


Please - "inform" me....
Inform you of what? You have an opinion that hunting is abhorrent and that is incorrect.
So say why though innit. There can be legit reasons, like some communities rely on it etc. But the fact you're not saying suggests that ain't the case with you.
These are NOT subsistence hunts, rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked, if you are not picked you forfeit the cost of the application. The money raised from these hunts (licenses, permits, tags) is used by the Arizona Game & Fish, and Forestry Departments to help maintain the lands on which the hunts occur, otherwise that cost would have to be covered by federal and state taxes. I could purchase a half (or even a quarter) a cow from one of the local ranches, butchered that is between 4 to 8 hundred pounds and cost $750 - $1500 approximately. Of course you could buy the meat one steak at a time but then the cost becomes extremely expensive. A hunting license, drawing entry and tags will cost me about $150 and a butchered Elk will provide about 450 pounds. It is illegal not to maximize the amount of meat taken from a downed animal, the penalties are; fines and the loss of equipment used in the hunt (vehicles, planes, boats), weapons and camp equipment although it is usually just the fine.

These hunts are not just harvesting animals, the hunting areas cover hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of square miles, the animals have better sense of sight, hearing and smell, they are stronger and have better stamina. The rates for getting picked for these hunts is very low and not all those picked will be successful, the fulfilment rates is usually around the mid to high teens. If you choose not to eat meat that’s just fine, if you choose to have someone else kill and butcher your animal of choice, that also works. I will kill and eat my own animals thanks.
Fuck off!

You couch your shitty defense of hunting with the typical crap about "eating what you kill", and "it's no different than gong down t' butchers"...

CUNT!!!! You expose yourself with this one simple line... "rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked"... "lucky enough to be picked"????

People like you make me fuckin puke... you're no different than the rich toffs supporting the "RIGHT", to get together with a bunch of like minded degenerates, on horseback, with a pack of dogs, running a poor fuckin fox to ground and calling it "sport"...

At least have the guts to call it what it is... you like to get your little gun out, and go shoot summat, cause it gives you a "Rambo" hard on.

Piece of shit!!!
Did not see this coming. Welcome back Alf.

:joint:
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
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Sid
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Posts: 24443
Joined: 7 years ago

9 months ago

Well...

He must have felt he'd left it long enough
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Lazarus
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Posts: 16182
Joined: 7 years ago

9 months ago

Seems Alf has scared away the quarry, he rustled the bushes and stunk up the place.
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
RedDevilinAZ
First Teamer
Posts: 313
Joined: 1 year ago
Location: Prescott

9 months ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
9 months ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago
Sid wrote:
9 months ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
9 months ago
Pikey McScum wrote:
9 months ago


Please - "inform" me....
Inform you of what? You have an opinion that hunting is abhorrent and that is incorrect.
So say why though innit. There can be legit reasons, like some communities rely on it etc. But the fact you're not saying suggests that ain't the case with you.
These are NOT subsistence hunts, rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked, if you are not picked you forfeit the cost of the application. The money raised from these hunts (licenses, permits, tags) is used by the Arizona Game & Fish, and Forestry Departments to help maintain the lands on which the hunts occur, otherwise that cost would have to be covered by federal and state taxes. I could purchase a half (or even a quarter) a cow from one of the local ranches, butchered that is between 4 to 8 hundred pounds and cost $750 - $1500 approximately. Of course you could buy the meat one steak at a time but then the cost becomes extremely expensive. A hunting license, drawing entry and tags will cost me about $150 and a butchered Elk will provide about 450 pounds. It is illegal not to maximize the amount of meat taken from a downed animal, the penalties are; fines and the loss of equipment used in the hunt (vehicles, planes, boats), weapons and camp equipment although it is usually just the fine.

These hunts are not just harvesting animals, the hunting areas cover hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of square miles, the animals have better sense of sight, hearing and smell, they are stronger and have better stamina. The rates for getting picked for these hunts is very low and not all those picked will be successful, the fulfilment rates is usually around the mid to high teens. If you choose not to eat meat that’s just fine, if you choose to have someone else kill and butcher your animal of choice, that also works. I will kill and eat my own animals thanks.
Fuck off!

You couch your shitty defense of hunting with the typical crap about "eating what you kill", and "it's no different than gong down t' butchers"...

CUNT!!!! You expose yourself with this one simple line... "rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked"... "lucky enough to be picked"????

People like you make me fuckin puke... you're no different than the rich toffs supporting the "RIGHT", to get together with a bunch of like minded degenerates, on horseback, with a pack of dogs, running a poor fuckin fox to ground and calling it "sport"...

At least have the guts to call it what it is... you like to get your little gun out, and go shoot summat, cause it gives you a "Rambo" hard on.

Piece of shit!!!
Fuck you shithead

If I want amateur psychoanalysis I would watch the Oprah Winfree or the Dr Phil Shows, but I do not want or need that type of analysis and I definitely do not want it from you. Let me give you some insight into your epiphany that you used to reveal my deep inner reasons for hunting, the "lucky enough to be picked" line, what you think this line means to you is beyond me and I really don't care what you think it means.. Lotteries have more entrants than items available, otherwise it’s called shopping. I have lived in Arizona for the last 10 years and each year I have applied for multiple hunts, I have been selected for three hunts over that same time frame that’s where the luck comes in.

Frankly I don’t give a rats arse for your opinions or what make you puke, but I get the feeling a lot of things want to make you puke. You appear much more pissed off at “rich toffs” and their gatherings than anything to do with discussing the merits or deficiencies of hunting as part of a game management system. Do us both a favor; put me on your Foe list, I have done the same to you, and neither need to read the others opinion.

In the meantime, eat shit and die motherfucker.
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Sid
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9 months ago

:))

Some of these hunting orgs are trying to make hunting (which is big business) appear as vital conservation rather than bloodsports, in these environmentally conscious times. I suspect that's what's happening here.

If I wanted an amateur assessment of environmental issues and 'hunting with a conscience' I'd listen to RedDev. You'd have to listen to the conservation experts to know whether that's the case or not, and whether RedDev is talking shit.
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Lazarus
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Posts: 16182
Joined: 7 years ago

9 months ago

Sid wrote:
9 months ago
:))

Some of these hunting orgs are trying to make hunting (which is big business) appear as vital conservation rather than bloodsports, in these environmentally conscious times. I suspect that's what's happening here.

If I wanted an amateur assessment of environmental issues and 'hunting with a conscience' I'd listen to RedDev. You'd have to listen to the conservation experts to know whether that's the case or not, and whether RedDev is talking shit.
I was trying to go about this debate in a more subtle way and not fan it up into a fire quickly. But then Alf posted.......

:eatpopcorn:
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
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