To elk or not to elk

The original Den of Iniquity
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FuB
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1 month ago

Sid wrote:
1 month ago
:))

Some of these hunting orgs are trying to make hunting (which is big business) appear as vital conservation rather than bloodsports, in these environmentally conscious times. I suspect that's what's happening here.

If I wanted an amateur assessment of environmental issues and 'hunting with a conscience' I'd listen to RedDev. You'd have to listen to the conservation experts to know whether that's the case or not, and whether RedDev is talking shit.
a google search for "elk conservation" turns up in first place the "Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation" who say that "Hunting Is Conservation" and then bang on about how Roosevelt said that all the animals belonged to everybody. I'm not sure if anyone asked any of the animals what they thought.

I eat meat and I don't think I can consciously suggest that there's a good way or bad way to take an animal's life but i'm not sure I would bang on about the opportunity to go and hunt being, effectively, winning a prize. To me that seems to push it a long way towards trophy hunting but I don't really want to get involved in a "you're a cunt", "no, you're a shithead" argument.
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RedDevilinAZ
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1 month ago

For what it's worth information on Wildlife and Sport Fish Restoration program (WSFR). Some will call it progergander, plain old bullshit or "fake news" but I have seen it in action and it works.
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FuB
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1 month ago

RedDevilinAZ wrote:
1 month ago
For what it's worth information on Wildlife and Sport Fish Restoration program (WSFR). Some will call it progergander, plain old bullshit or "fake news" but I have seen it in action and it works.
Without delving too deeply - and I apologise for that - all of this stuff just seems to me to be a case of waffling on about how we can conserve wildlife around man so long as wildlife serves man for means of food, beauty, interest, not feeling so guilty for having noticeably fucked it all up, etc., etc.

I am aware, as a meat eater, that I tread on dodgy, contradictory ground and, as already stated, I don't wish to make this any more of an angry slagging match than it's already become.

would it make any sense to lift this discussion out into a thread of it's own? not sure at exactly which point to start, though.
I may be able to fix a forum but I can't fix a fuckwit
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Alfonso Bedoya
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1 month ago

RedDevilinAZ wrote:
1 month ago
Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
1 month ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
1 month ago
Sid wrote:
1 month ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
1 month ago


Inform you of what? You have an opinion that hunting is abhorrent and that is incorrect.
So say why though innit. There can be legit reasons, like some communities rely on it etc. But the fact you're not saying suggests that ain't the case with you.
These are NOT subsistence hunts, rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked, if you are not picked you forfeit the cost of the application. The money raised from these hunts (licenses, permits, tags) is used by the Arizona Game & Fish, and Forestry Departments to help maintain the lands on which the hunts occur, otherwise that cost would have to be covered by federal and state taxes. I could purchase a half (or even a quarter) a cow from one of the local ranches, butchered that is between 4 to 8 hundred pounds and cost $750 - $1500 approximately. Of course you could buy the meat one steak at a time but then the cost becomes extremely expensive. A hunting license, drawing entry and tags will cost me about $150 and a butchered Elk will provide about 450 pounds. It is illegal not to maximize the amount of meat taken from a downed animal, the penalties are; fines and the loss of equipment used in the hunt (vehicles, planes, boats), weapons and camp equipment although it is usually just the fine.

These hunts are not just harvesting animals, the hunting areas cover hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of square miles, the animals have better sense of sight, hearing and smell, they are stronger and have better stamina. The rates for getting picked for these hunts is very low and not all those picked will be successful, the fulfilment rates is usually around the mid to high teens. If you choose not to eat meat that’s just fine, if you choose to have someone else kill and butcher your animal of choice, that also works. I will kill and eat my own animals thanks.
Fuck off!

You couch your shitty defense of hunting with the typical crap about "eating what you kill", and "it's no different than gong down t' butchers"...

CUNT!!!! You expose yourself with this one simple line... "rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked"... "lucky enough to be picked"????

People like you make me fuckin puke... you're no different than the rich toffs supporting the "RIGHT", to get together with a bunch of like minded degenerates, on horseback, with a pack of dogs, running a poor fuckin fox to ground and calling it "sport"...

At least have the guts to call it what it is... you like to get your little gun out, and go shoot summat, cause it gives you a "Rambo" hard on.

Piece of shit!!!
Fuck you shithead

If I want amateur psychoanalysis I would watch the Oprah Winfree or the Dr Phil Shows, but I do not want or need that type of analysis and I definitely do not want it from you. Let me give you some insight into your epiphany that you used to reveal my deep inner reasons for hunting, the "lucky enough to be picked" line, what you think this line means to you is beyond me and I really don't care what you think it means.. Lotteries have more entrants than items available, otherwise it’s called shopping. I have lived in Arizona for the last 10 years and each year I have applied for multiple hunts, I have been selected for three hunts over that same time frame that’s where the luck comes in.

Frankly I don’t give a rats arse for your opinions or what make you puke, but I get the feeling a lot of things want to make you puke. You appear much more pissed off at “rich toffs” and their gatherings than anything to do with discussing the merits or deficiencies of hunting as part of a game management system. Do us both a favor; put me on your Foe list, I have done the same to you, and neither need to read the others opinion.

In the meantime, eat shit and die motherfucker.
Ha... yeah, conservation, my arse... that's why you put your name in the hat, right? Cause you're trying to do your bit for nature, right?... nothing to do with actually enjoying "the hunt", yeah?... Bungalow Billy-Bob Big Bollocks... putting himself out there... just him and the deadly beastie... no quarter asked, none given... this is for real men, this... you're garbage mate, and no doubt about it. You've got all the excuses down, sound reasons for why this just must be done, but all you really give a fuck about, is putting some helpless creature in your scope, and snuffing out its life. And don't give me that crap about not caring what anyone thinks... why else would you even post it here??? Obviously someone would take offense when it comes to hunting... someone always takes offense, and for good reason... which was really the point, wasn't it? You wanted someone to call you out on it, so you could put up your pitiful arguments for why it's righteous... and there is nothing, absolutely nothing you can say that makes it so... You're garbage, and if there was any real justice in the world, there'd be a season for shooting Redneck shitheads... now THAT would be good sport! Might even put my name in the hat for that one... Cunt!
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
RedDevilinAZ
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Posts: 313
Joined: 7 months ago
Location: Prescott

1 month ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
1 month ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
1 month ago
Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
1 month ago
RedDevilinAZ wrote:
1 month ago
Sid wrote:
1 month ago

So say why though innit. There can be legit reasons, like some communities rely on it etc. But the fact you're not saying suggests that ain't the case with you.
These are NOT subsistence hunts, rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked, if you are not picked you forfeit the cost of the application. The money raised from these hunts (licenses, permits, tags) is used by the Arizona Game & Fish, and Forestry Departments to help maintain the lands on which the hunts occur, otherwise that cost would have to be covered by federal and state taxes. I could purchase a half (or even a quarter) a cow from one of the local ranches, butchered that is between 4 to 8 hundred pounds and cost $750 - $1500 approximately. Of course you could buy the meat one steak at a time but then the cost becomes extremely expensive. A hunting license, drawing entry and tags will cost me about $150 and a butchered Elk will provide about 450 pounds. It is illegal not to maximize the amount of meat taken from a downed animal, the penalties are; fines and the loss of equipment used in the hunt (vehicles, planes, boats), weapons and camp equipment although it is usually just the fine.

These hunts are not just harvesting animals, the hunting areas cover hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of square miles, the animals have better sense of sight, hearing and smell, they are stronger and have better stamina. The rates for getting picked for these hunts is very low and not all those picked will be successful, the fulfilment rates is usually around the mid to high teens. If you choose not to eat meat that’s just fine, if you choose to have someone else kill and butcher your animal of choice, that also works. I will kill and eat my own animals thanks.
Fuck off!

You couch your shitty defense of hunting with the typical crap about "eating what you kill", and "it's no different than gong down t' butchers"...

CUNT!!!! You expose yourself with this one simple line... "rather they are a lottery drawing for which you must pay to apply and be lucky enough to be picked"... "lucky enough to be picked"????

People like you make me fuckin puke... you're no different than the rich toffs supporting the "RIGHT", to get together with a bunch of like minded degenerates, on horseback, with a pack of dogs, running a poor fuckin fox to ground and calling it "sport"...

At least have the guts to call it what it is... you like to get your little gun out, and go shoot summat, cause it gives you a "Rambo" hard on.

Piece of shit!!!
Fuck you shithead

If I want amateur psychoanalysis I would watch the Oprah Winfree or the Dr Phil Shows, but I do not want or need that type of analysis and I definitely do not want it from you. Let me give you some insight into your epiphany that you used to reveal my deep inner reasons for hunting, the "lucky enough to be picked" line, what you think this line means to you is beyond me and I really don't care what you think it means.. Lotteries have more entrants than items available, otherwise it’s called shopping. I have lived in Arizona for the last 10 years and each year I have applied for multiple hunts, I have been selected for three hunts over that same time frame that’s where the luck comes in.

Frankly I don’t give a rats arse for your opinions or what make you puke, but I get the feeling a lot of things want to make you puke. You appear much more pissed off at “rich toffs” and their gatherings than anything to do with discussing the merits or deficiencies of hunting as part of a game management system. Do us both a favor; put me on your Foe list, I have done the same to you, and neither need to read the others opinion.

In the meantime, eat shit and die motherfucker.
Ha... yeah, conservation, my arse... that's why you put your name in the hat, right? Cause you're trying to do your bit for nature, right?... nothing to do with actually enjoying "the hunt", yeah?... Bungalow Billy-Bob Big Bollocks... putting himself out there... just him and the deadly beastie... no quarter asked, none given... this is for real men, this... you're garbage mate, and no doubt about it. You've got all the excuses down, sound reasons for why this just must be done, but all you really give a fuck about, is putting some helpless creature in your scope, and snuffing out its life. And don't give me that crap about not caring what anyone thinks... why else would you even post it here??? Obviously someone would take offense when it comes to hunting... someone always takes offense, and for good reason... which was really the point, wasn't it? You wanted someone to call you out on it, so you could put up your pitiful arguments for why it's righteous... and there is nothing, absolutely nothing you can say that makes it so... You're garbage, and if there was any real justice in the world, there'd be a season for shooting Redneck shitheads... now THAT would be good sport! Might even put my name in the hat for that one... Cunt!
You really are fucking clueless, if I could put you on my Foe list I would. Instead I'll ignore you.
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swampash
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1 month ago

Not wanting to add more fuel to the fire and hoping this can return to a civil debate; I listened to a really interesting radio interview a few months back with a lady who had taken up hunting. Her reason was that she likes to eat but could not square it with the terrible conditions that factory farmed animals regularly have to suffer in order that our supermarkets can supply ridiculously cheap meat to their customers.
As a meat eater she had decided to take full responsibility for her actions and decided to only eat meat that she has hunted, killed and butchered herself.
I realise the vegetarians here probably won’t agree, but there seems to be a certain integrity to her decision.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
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swampash
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1 month ago

...and yes Fuß, probably a good idea to move all this to another thread.
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swampash
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1 month ago

Very cool Fuß... :ymhug:
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
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swampash
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1 month ago

...er just one question - how do I move my last contribution here, rather than having to re-type it?
Ah - you already did it!
Last edited by swampash on Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
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Sid
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1 month ago

The thread title :))
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