Jose Mourinho

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Sid
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4 years ago

Nah Casilas said it did happen, that there was a huge split in the dressing room that was heavily based on Mourinho's unjustified behaviour towards him. Also Hazard said that he text Mourinho and apologised after he'd got sacked, and he wouldn't have done that if nothing went on behind the scenes.
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just1n
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4 years ago

FuB wrote:
just1n wrote:But he also creates division wherever he goes, splits the dressing room, and the squad falls out with him by year 3.
not wishing to be part of the mourinho is the best thing in the world brigade but this is an absolute bollocks argument.

Did the squad fall out with him at Porto, at Chelsea (part 1) and Inter? I'm not convinced that there was a falling out with the squad at Madrid either so it's utter revisionist shite to imply that this happens wherever he goes when, ultimately, it has happened ONCE.
Fair enough. I will give you Porto and Inter. Chelsea first time around didn't exactly end amicably.
But Real ended very bad. The players who were with him during the 2nd second season, had enough by season 3. I listened to a podcast about that recently.
And we saw how Chelsea ended.
So those are his last 2 jobs. Any suggestion it will be better now that he is back at a giant club in the Madrid mould?
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just1n
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4 years ago

Sid wrote:Nah Casilas said it did happen, that there was a huge split in the dressing room that was heavily based on Mourinho's unjustified behaviour towards him. Also Hazard said that he text Mourinho and apologised after he'd got sacked, and he wouldn't have done that if nothing went on behind the scenes.
There was also an issue with the relationship at International level. Mourinho did not like the fact that certain Barca and Real players got on really well when on Spanish duty. He preferred the toxic us vs the world vibe and I believe he tried to get the players to buy into it.
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4 years ago

just1n wrote:
Sid wrote:Nah Casilas said it did happen, that there was a huge split in the dressing room that was heavily based on Mourinho's unjustified behaviour towards him. Also Hazard said that he text Mourinho and apologised after he'd got sacked, and he wouldn't have done that if nothing went on behind the scenes.
There was also an issue with the relationship at International level. Mourinho did not like the fact that certain Barca and Real players got on really well when on Spanish duty. He preferred the toxic us vs the world vibe and I believe he tried to get the players to buy into it.
ok fine... but making sure there aren't players bigger than the club and trying to create unity with a siege mentality were the very tactics that Ferguson got 26 years with.

The issue is whether you can do that at a club nowadays with players that have so much power. Ferguson was able to maintain it because he was already there as the undisputed dictator and any player who came in either bowed his head or got fucked over.

I think Mourinho has tried to use that as a model and come up short because he's generally been the new boy himself. I think there's every chance he'll have trouble at United but maybe van Gaal was enough of a disciplinarian that there might be enough of a culture and hangover already there. Remains to be seen.
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just1n
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4 years ago

I found that article re pronoun test. Here it is. Explains the difference re Fergie management to Mourinho management.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/fo ... 576052.ece
In a recent report, McKinsey, the management consultancy, concluded that narrative is one of the most vital assets of any organisation. This may sound a bit soft and fuzzy, particularly from a sharp-edged corporate like McKinsey, but it tallies with modern psychological research as well as common sense.

Think of Manchester United under Sir Alex Ferguson. Read his books and you will note that Ferguson was always talking about what it meant to be a “United player”. It was about passion, work ethic and a grounding in the history of the club. He didn’t want pay-cheque performers. He wanted people who could demonstrate a deeper commitment.

Narrative was central to this. Ferguson constantly emphasised the sense of United as a living, breathing storyline with emotional depth. He talked about the Busby Babes, the Munich air disaster, the rebuilding of the club from the ashes of the runway, Best, Law and Charlton, the European heroics of ’68 and the sense of a club with a defining mission.

It helped that many of his players carried United in their hearts from childhood. When the club won the league title in 1997, Nicky Butt, the Neville brothers and Ryan Giggs went down to the Busby statue outside Old Trafford and joined the fans in celebration. “We knew we had to go and join in,” Phil Neville would later say.

Other United players who were not childhood fans bought into the narrative, too. Fourteen years after leaving the club, Peter Schmeichel was interviewed on ITV before a United game in 2013. He was born in Denmark and played for Brondby in his youth. But whenever he talked about United, it was “us” and “we”. He still felt a sense of belonging.

This is what Robert Reich, the economist, calls the pronoun test. “On a tour of workplaces, I ask front-line workers to tell me about the company, and I listen for the pronouns,” he has said. “And if they use ‘we’ or ‘our’, I know that there is a kind of bond there, an affinity. There’s a sense in which that employee feels that their destiny is bound up with the future of the company. But if they use different pronouns — ‘they’, ‘their’ — I know there’s a distance . . . and it’s going to have a very different result.”......
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4 years ago

just1n wrote:I found that article re pronoun test. Here it is. Explains the difference re Fergie management to Mourinho management.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/fo ... 576052.ece
In a recent report, McKinsey, the management consultancy, concluded that narrative is one of the most vital assets of any organisation. This may sound a bit soft and fuzzy, particularly from a sharp-edged corporate like McKinsey, but it tallies with modern psychological research as well as common sense.

Think of Manchester United under Sir Alex Ferguson. Read his books and you will note that Ferguson was always talking about what it meant to be a “United player”. It was about passion, work ethic and a grounding in the history of the club. He didn’t want pay-cheque performers. He wanted people who could demonstrate a deeper commitment.

Narrative was central to this. Ferguson constantly emphasised the sense of United as a living, breathing storyline with emotional depth. He talked about the Busby Babes, the Munich air disaster, the rebuilding of the club from the ashes of the runway, Best, Law and Charlton, the European heroics of ’68 and the sense of a club with a defining mission.

It helped that many of his players carried United in their hearts from childhood. When the club won the league title in 1997, Nicky Butt, the Neville brothers and Ryan Giggs went down to the Busby statue outside Old Trafford and joined the fans in celebration. “We knew we had to go and join in,” Phil Neville would later say.

Other United players who were not childhood fans bought into the narrative, too. Fourteen years after leaving the club, Peter Schmeichel was interviewed on ITV before a United game in 2013. He was born in Denmark and played for Brondby in his youth. But whenever he talked about United, it was “us” and “we”. He still felt a sense of belonging.

This is what Robert Reich, the economist, calls the pronoun test. “On a tour of workplaces, I ask front-line workers to tell me about the company, and I listen for the pronouns,” he has said. “And if they use ‘we’ or ‘our’, I know that there is a kind of bond there, an affinity. There’s a sense in which that employee feels that their destiny is bound up with the future of the company. But if they use different pronouns — ‘they’, ‘their’ — I know there’s a distance . . . and it’s going to have a very different result.”......
Thanks for this, Justin. This all makes sense and is doubtless interesting but I'm struggling to think of an occasion where a player or manager hasn't used "we" and "us" in the context of the team they represent. It seems to me to be the de facto way things work in team sport and not necessarily something special to Ferguson's management or United.
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just1n
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4 years ago

FuB wrote:
just1n wrote:I found that article re pronoun test. Here it is. Explains the difference re Fergie management to Mourinho management.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/fo ... 576052.ece
In a recent report, McKinsey, the management consultancy, concluded that narrative is one of the most vital assets of any organisation. This may sound a bit soft and fuzzy, particularly from a sharp-edged corporate like McKinsey, but it tallies with modern psychological research as well as common sense.

Think of Manchester United under Sir Alex Ferguson. Read his books and you will note that Ferguson was always talking about what it meant to be a “United player”. It was about passion, work ethic and a grounding in the history of the club. He didn’t want pay-cheque performers. He wanted people who could demonstrate a deeper commitment.

Narrative was central to this. Ferguson constantly emphasised the sense of United as a living, breathing storyline with emotional depth. He talked about the Busby Babes, the Munich air disaster, the rebuilding of the club from the ashes of the runway, Best, Law and Charlton, the European heroics of ’68 and the sense of a club with a defining mission.

It helped that many of his players carried United in their hearts from childhood. When the club won the league title in 1997, Nicky Butt, the Neville brothers and Ryan Giggs went down to the Busby statue outside Old Trafford and joined the fans in celebration. “We knew we had to go and join in,” Phil Neville would later say.

Other United players who were not childhood fans bought into the narrative, too. Fourteen years after leaving the club, Peter Schmeichel was interviewed on ITV before a United game in 2013. He was born in Denmark and played for Brondby in his youth. But whenever he talked about United, it was “us” and “we”. He still felt a sense of belonging.

This is what Robert Reich, the economist, calls the pronoun test. “On a tour of workplaces, I ask front-line workers to tell me about the company, and I listen for the pronouns,” he has said. “And if they use ‘we’ or ‘our’, I know that there is a kind of bond there, an affinity. There’s a sense in which that employee feels that their destiny is bound up with the future of the company. But if they use different pronouns — ‘they’, ‘their’ — I know there’s a distance . . . and it’s going to have a very different result.”......
Thanks for this, Justin. This all makes sense and is doubtless interesting but I'm struggling to think of an occasion where a player or manager hasn't used "we" and "us" in the context of the team they represent. It seems to me to be the de facto way things work in team sport and not necessarily something special to Ferguson's management or United.
True but what the author was saying is that he interviewed players after they had left the club. Beckham was playing for PSG and he referred to a Utd game that he had watched over the weekend and still referred to "we".
Probably to do with the connection to the club and tradition that Fergie managed to create.
Just thought it was a really interesting take on it.
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bman2
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4 years ago

Mourinho just always needs to be at war with someone. I had a boss just a like him my first proper job, it was a nightmare. I was in the cult he built, before I realized there was no end to his wars. He started battling with me in public, a 22 year about 3 levels below him in an office hierarchy, then I quit. later on everyone saw the same thing and he was forced out.

Those people can be really successful, in a limited sense, in the short term. Maybe he'll change, but even if he wants to, I bet you he can't.
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4 years ago

But if nothing else I'm happy for the breath of fresh air, we have something new to talk about! And I do think Mourinho will be good in the short term, it just bothers me that Woodward will probably think it's all sorted now and do nothing to make the football side of the club better run in the long term. I think they fundamentally don't get that Ferguson had a very different role to someone like Mourinho, who's a continental style short term first term-focused coach-manager.
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just1n
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4 years ago

bman2 wrote:But if nothing else I'm happy for the breath of fresh air, we have something new to talk about! And I do think Mourinho will be good in the short term, it just bothers me that Woodward will probably think it's all sorted now and do nothing to make the football side of the club better run in the long term. I think they fundamentally don't get that Ferguson had a very different role to someone like Mourinho, who's a continental style short term first term-focused coach-manager.
Mourinho is perfect for Woodword. It's all about press. Good press. Bad press. Mendes signings. Spend the money. Get the sponsorships. Make more money. The Madrid model.
The football is down on that list imo. For Woodword that is. Mourinho will want to win and he will want to fuck over Pep.
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