Do you want to give LVG this summer or have we seen enough..

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Sid
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4 years ago

bman2 wrote:No one is saying he's a rubbish manager ffs, his record speaks for itself. But there has been a glaring problem in our game even when everything was going well: we don't create enough chances or take enough shots. We got good results because for a while we had an above-average goals per shot ratio. Now our goals per shot ratio is returning to the mean, which is likely over the course of a season, and so now we're not scoring any goals. In the first half of the season van Persie would have taken one of his chances, but now he's rusty, so he didn't. But even though we were losing the game and controlling possession, we still hardly worked any chances for him during the last half hour.

That's what drives me absolutely spare: when we tied or losing a match, dominating possession, and DOING FUCK ALL WITH IT. I totally respect the possession game, but when you're in that situation, you have to be able to kick it up a level, switch gears and take a few more chances in order to increase your own chances of scoring.

But to be fair to him, our squad is just not that good. We have very few players with the quality on the ball to pass it quickly. Our passing game is toothless in part because it's so fecking slow and predictable.
Aye, possession isn't the problem. It's the law now, it's how the game is played from Argentina to North Korea. You have to pass the ball because lumping it doesn't work.

And short, slow passing in midfield is fine, if boring. But in the final third you have to quicken it up, you have to move off the ball to drag defenders out of position and give them problems, and you have to play one touch. That's the bit we're shit at. We're static, slow, thick.

But Gaal's teams don't play slow static shit football (but they do if you choose to only look at what he did with Holland, not Spain, Germany etc. also tournament football is different to club football so they're incomparable), and he regularly moans aout it in his post match interviews, so it must be the squad not being able to do what he wants them to do consistently.

The only time we've pulled it off was the 3-0 against Hull - and the fans were still booing and jeering because they don't like it even if it works. They want more risks, more drama, people running with the ball outside of their "zones", taking players on etc. So we've got a big problem that will come to fore if we don't win any trophies next season, and if the possession football doesn't become more interesting and useful.

But I think we're getting closer to knowing what we from United
Steggo
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4 years ago

Sid wrote: you have to move off the ball to drag defenders out of position and give them problems, and you have to play one touch. That's the bit we're shit at. We're static, slow, thick.

They want more risks, more drama, people running with the ball outside of their "zones", taking players on etc. So we've got a big problem that will come to fore if we don't win any trophies next season, and if the possession football doesn't become more interesting and useful.
I think if we could blend the two it would be sorted. At the moment teams let us play up to their penalty area where they know we run out of ideas. Part of a proper possession game is having players that can improvise in the danger areas. At present there seems to be a reluctance to try anything that isn't in the script. Its frustrating and boring.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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4 years ago

Sid wrote:
redzebs wrote:
Sid wrote:On here I've only ever seen people go back to what Gaal did with Holland at the World Cup which was "only" the semi's, and they played crap football which is what you do when you can only work with what you've got and you're playing with a nation on your back in the biggest competition in the world

They don't look at what he achieved in Spain, Netherlands, Germany

Because we don't really care what people do abroad, they have to do it in the Prem. It's that old arrogant "yeah but he hasn't done it in the best league in the world has he"

I like the line "he comes with a big reputation" which is them basically saying "I know nothing about what he has done in the last 25 years because I only watch 4 teams in the Premier League, 1 of them regularly"


Errr, cause we play in the Prem, apart from Danni, who is a cunt anyway, this is a pretty reasonable debate, stop being so elitist if people don't know the managers whole background, did you watch every Erdivision game when he was manager of two clubs? If you did, fair play, if you didnt, wind your neck in, people have a right to be fucked off that we got done three on the spin without a goal scored. Stop gloating, if he was English you'd be on about all the Lion Hearts turning their backs etc etc ad naseum
You don't have to watch every game he's ever managed but you do have to take into account everything he has done in football pre World Cup if you're going to bring some content to the debate, and not just sound like an arrogant Martin Keown who dismisses all this relevant stuff so he can argue on his terms, which is "yeah but he hasn't done it in the Prem before"

Gaal's reputation is justified. If he can't do it then it's us that is the problem, and the board should give us what we want whichis Klopp or a Top Red like Giggs in charge so we can play 442 with Kanchelskis on the wing.
Fuck sake Sid... now you're starting to sound like Dannii...

Van Gall is indeed respected for good reason, but that shouldn't give him a free ride... you yourself, like everyone else was aware 6 months ago at how he was getting very little grief from the press, when it was obvious that in the same situation they calling for Mopes' sacking... whatever Van Gall did before United is irrelevant right now, because what we're seeing isn't progress... it's that simple... when he started, it was with so much expectation that he felt it necessary to warn everyone, "my teams usually take a few months to come around to my methods", or some shit like that... not only have we not come around, but what we've seen still makes no sense... seriously, what are we supposed to be confident about for next year?
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Alfonso Bedoya
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4 years ago

bman2 wrote:No one is saying he's a rubbish manager ffs, his record speaks for itself. But there has been a glaring problem in our game even when everything was going well: we don't create enough chances or take enough shots. We got good results because for a while we had an above-average goals per shot ratio. Now our goals per shot ratio is returning to the mean, which is likely over the course of a season, and so now we're not scoring any goals. In the first half of the season van Persie would have taken one of his chances, but now he's rusty, so he didn't. But even though we were losing the game and controlling possession, we still hardly worked any chances for him during the last half hour.

That's what drives me absolutely spare: when we tied or losing a match, dominating possession, and DOING FUCK ALL WITH IT. I totally respect the possession game, but when you're in that situation, you have to be able to kick it up a level, switch gears and take a few more chances in order to increase your own chances of scoring.

But to be fair to him, our squad is just not that good. We have very few players with the quality on the ball to pass it quickly. Our passing game is toothless in part because it's so fecking slow and predictable.
I agree with this Bernie, but for one thing... if the team isn't good enough for Van Galls methods, then how come he can get results against the Dippers, and City, and show some quality against other good teams, but consistently look like absolute gash against the fodder... it's just bizarre...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Sid
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4 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Sid wrote:
redzebs wrote:
Sid wrote:On here I've only ever seen people go back to what Gaal did with Holland at the World Cup which was "only" the semi's, and they played crap football which is what you do when you can only work with what you've got and you're playing with a nation on your back in the biggest competition in the world

They don't look at what he achieved in Spain, Netherlands, Germany

Because we don't really care what people do abroad, they have to do it in the Prem. It's that old arrogant "yeah but he hasn't done it in the best league in the world has he"

I like the line "he comes with a big reputation" which is them basically saying "I know nothing about what he has done in the last 25 years because I only watch 4 teams in the Premier League, 1 of them regularly"


Errr, cause we play in the Prem, apart from Danni, who is a cunt anyway, this is a pretty reasonable debate, stop being so elitist if people don't know the managers whole background, did you watch every Erdivision game when he was manager of two clubs? If you did, fair play, if you didnt, wind your neck in, people have a right to be fucked off that we got done three on the spin without a goal scored. Stop gloating, if he was English you'd be on about all the Lion Hearts turning their backs etc etc ad naseum
You don't have to watch every game he's ever managed but you do have to take into account everything he has done in football pre World Cup if you're going to bring some content to the debate, and not just sound like an arrogant Martin Keown who dismisses all this relevant stuff so he can argue on his terms, which is "yeah but he hasn't done it in the Prem before"

Gaal's reputation is justified. If he can't do it then it's us that is the problem, and the board should give us what we want whichis Klopp or a Top Red like Giggs in charge so we can play 442 with Kanchelskis on the wing.
Fuck sake Sid... now you're starting to sound like Dannii...

Van Gall is indeed respected for good reason, but that shouldn't give him a free ride... you yourself, like everyone else was aware 6 months ago at how he was getting very little grief from the press, when it was obvious that in the same situation they calling for Mopes' sacking... whatever Van Gall did before United is irrelevant right now, because what we're seeing isn't progress... it's that simple... when he started, it was with so much expectation that he felt it necessary to warn everyone, "my teams usually take a few months to come around to my methods", or some shit like that... not only have we not come around, but what we've seen still makes no sense... seriously, what are we supposed to be confident about for next year?
You're starting to sound like Martin Keown

Everything he's done in football isn't irrelevant - I mean that's just absolute fucking nonsense, Alf. Anybody who writes off Bundesliga's, Liga's, European Cups can leave the debate now. Just because you didn't see it because you only watch Prem games is your problem. You've got a manager who has created top teams and top players under all different circumstances around Europe. So if he can't do it then maybe the problem isn't the manager, but something else. Because it has worked everywhere else, so why isn't it working here. But then tbf he still needs time to build his team.

Now I'm thinking the players aren't into it - the ones Fergie bought. I think Giggs, Fergie, Charlton, Rooney don't believe in it either because it goes against the United Way and what fans want to see. And because he's not going to be here very long so it seems pointless in changing everything for 3 seasons.

I think we got it wrong again. We might win something with Gaal next season or the season after but when he goes, a lot of people will be glad to see the back of him and his football. The next man we go for will be Top Red Giggs who'll give us what we want or an "attack minded" manager, whatever that is
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Sid
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4 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
bman2 wrote:No one is saying he's a rubbish manager ffs, his record speaks for itself. But there has been a glaring problem in our game even when everything was going well: we don't create enough chances or take enough shots. We got good results because for a while we had an above-average goals per shot ratio. Now our goals per shot ratio is returning to the mean, which is likely over the course of a season, and so now we're not scoring any goals. In the first half of the season van Persie would have taken one of his chances, but now he's rusty, so he didn't. But even though we were losing the game and controlling possession, we still hardly worked any chances for him during the last half hour.

That's what drives me absolutely spare: when we tied or losing a match, dominating possession, and DOING FUCK ALL WITH IT. I totally respect the possession game, but when you're in that situation, you have to be able to kick it up a level, switch gears and take a few more chances in order to increase your own chances of scoring.

But to be fair to him, our squad is just not that good. We have very few players with the quality on the ball to pass it quickly. Our passing game is toothless in part because it's so fecking slow and predictable.
I agree with this Bernie, but for one thing... if the team isn't good enough for Van Galls methods, then how come he can get results against the Dippers, and City, and show some quality against other good teams, but consistently look like absolute gash against the fodder... it's just bizarre...
He changed his approach for that good run we went on, he played more risky football. Then once we got safe inside the top 4, he went back to his preferred approach which is the dross we saw against West Brom. And that approach is what we'll see every game next season you'd imagine, when he gets players who can play that way.

I think as a philosophy it will work. But that shite we saw against West Brom is as good as it will get with this set of players. You need ball playing centrebacks, a Carrick, better wingers, and Rooney, Van Persie playing well.

But then if I'm right and some of the key players and influential people at the club don't believe in it, then it won't work and we're wasting our time. Also can't ignore the fans who don't enjoy it either.

What's the point in him being here tbf
Davey-boy
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4 years ago

If wanting to see good fast paced attack minded football, with a cutting edge, makes me one of your top reds then I really don't give a fuck.
Yes LVG has an excellent CV and I understand he'll be here next year whatever, but some of the absolute shite he's served up throughout this season save for a few games, is unacceptable to me.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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4 years ago

Sid wrote:You're starting to sound like Martin Keown

Everything he's done in football isn't irrelevant - I mean that's just absolute fucking nonsense, Alf. Anybody who writes off Bundesliga's, Liga's, European Cups can leave the debate now. Just because you didn't see it because you only watch Prem games is your problem. You've got a manager who has created top teams and top players under all different circumstances around Europe. So if he can't do it then maybe the problem isn't the manager, but something else. Because it has worked everywhere else, so why isn't it working here. But then tbf he still needs time to build his team.

Now I'm thinking the players aren't into it - the ones Fergie bought. I think Giggs, Fergie, Charlton, Rooney don't believe in it either because it goes against the United Way and what fans want to see. And because he's not going to be here very long so it seems pointless in changing everything for 3 seasons.

I think we got it wrong again. We might win something with Gaal next season or the season after but when he goes, a lot of people will be glad to see the back of him and his football. The next man we go for will be Top Red Giggs who'll give us what we want or an "attack minded" manager, whatever that is
Fuck!... I made a point of saying "right now", because "right now" it is fuckin irrelevant... ask anyone if they give a fuck what he did elsewhere, he's here now, and right now he's fucking it all up!... he's been in the job for all but a full season, and our football is no better off than when he started... so what if he's cleared out the shit, it's what he's kept, that he's being judged on, and our football is only effective when he plays Fellaini head on a stick ball, we could have kept Mopes for that shite... that's not "Top Red" fuck all, and it's not nonsense... what gets me, is one day your posts are critical as fuck of Van Gall, the next day you're defending him to the hilt... make up your mind...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Alfonso Bedoya
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4 years ago

Sid wrote:
Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
bman2 wrote:No one is saying he's a rubbish manager ffs, his record speaks for itself. But there has been a glaring problem in our game even when everything was going well: we don't create enough chances or take enough shots. We got good results because for a while we had an above-average goals per shot ratio. Now our goals per shot ratio is returning to the mean, which is likely over the course of a season, and so now we're not scoring any goals. In the first half of the season van Persie would have taken one of his chances, but now he's rusty, so he didn't. But even though we were losing the game and controlling possession, we still hardly worked any chances for him during the last half hour.

That's what drives me absolutely spare: when we tied or losing a match, dominating possession, and DOING FUCK ALL WITH IT. I totally respect the possession game, but when you're in that situation, you have to be able to kick it up a level, switch gears and take a few more chances in order to increase your own chances of scoring.

But to be fair to him, our squad is just not that good. We have very few players with the quality on the ball to pass it quickly. Our passing game is toothless in part because it's so fecking slow and predictable.
I agree with this Bernie, but for one thing... if the team isn't good enough for Van Galls methods, then how come he can get results against the Dippers, and City, and show some quality against other good teams, but consistently look like absolute gash against the fodder... it's just bizarre...
He changed his approach for that good run we went on, he played more risky football. Then once we got safe inside the top 4, he went back to his preferred approach which is the dross we saw against West Brom. And that approach is what we'll see every game next season you'd imagine, when he gets players who can play that way.

I think as a philosophy it will work. But that shite we saw against West Brom is as good as it will get with this set of players. You need ball playing centrebacks, a Carrick, better wingers, and Rooney, Van Persie playing well.

But then if I'm right and some of the key players and influential people at the club don't believe in it, then it won't work and we're wasting our time. Also can't ignore the fans who don't enjoy it either.

What's the point in him being here tbf
So... it's everyones fault except Van Galls... you need to read what you've wrote, because it comes across like this... Van Gall is brilliant, and knows a better way for us to play, but we don't have the team for it... so we're failing... never mind that Ferguson could have made it work, or that Van Gall himself can make it work... if he wants to... but he's so fuckin pig headed, he'll force his methods on a team not good enough for his vision that we're suffering because of it... is that what you're saying?
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Alfonso Bedoya
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4 years ago

By the way Sid... what is this "Top Reds" shit?

That's a Dannii wind up... you into that now?

He's also the only other one here who has even hinted that anyone here wants to see Giggs in charge...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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