Versus The Arsenal

Manchester United chat
User avatar
Edfuckingwoodward
Legend
Posts: 5398
Joined: 6 years ago

5 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Felwin wrote:
marlon wrote:What kind of manager is afraid to play Herrera, di Maria and Mata in their midfield?
Mourinho. He is risk averse and tends to only have 1-2 flair players. If he had been here, he'd definitely have sacrificed many of our attackers too,



...I do actually agree with most of your criticism though, I just think that the upheaval thing comes into it at this point. And to say "oh, i'm sure we'll deal with it, look at Pochettino/Koeman etc. etc." is just as much of a punt as sticking with LvG for me.
Say what you like about Mourinho, he'd have sorted our defence, straight off... he'd have gotten the best out of what we had, and culled/replaced the weak links, and De Gea wouldn't have been our player of the year...

He'd have gotten the absolute best out of Rooney, and there would have been no passengers...

I'm not actually a fan of Mourinho... never have been, he's a cunt, with no class... but he's a perfect example of the difference between the new and the old... Mourinho had Ferguson in his pocket, just like Guardiola did... managers like Guardiola and Mourinho learned from managers like Robson, Van Gall, and Ferguson... studied them, and aimed/worked out how to beat them... we should be looking at the managers who aim to beat Mourinho and Guardiola... the managers who have a NEW vision of the game... not managers whose cutting edge was 10/20 years ago
Simeone?
User avatar
Alfonso Bedoya
Legend
Posts: 13448
Joined: 7 years ago

5 years ago

Maybe, but the problem is, why do we make the choice?

You have to wonder about our process of selection... we're not run by men who think in terms of football... what the fuck is their process of interview??

They let Ferguson make the first choice on a fuckin whim... then made the Van Gall choice, seemingly on reputation...

We SHOULD be thoroughly grilling potential managers on their vision, their plans for the team, both long and short term... but the cunts we've got in charge won't do that, because they haven't got any reference to base any kind of decision anyway... "if it's good enough for Sir Alex, it's good enough for us"... "Van Gaal is a legend, he'll do"...

The Glazers want results... they will take what they believe to be a quick fix, over a long term plan every time...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
danniitronix
Legend
Posts: 1643
Joined: 6 years ago

5 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Felwin wrote:
marlon wrote:What kind of manager is afraid to play Herrera, di Maria and Mata in their midfield?
Mourinho. He is risk averse and tends to only have 1-2 flair players. If he had been here, he'd definitely have sacrificed many of our attackers too,



...I do actually agree with most of your criticism though, I just think that the upheaval thing comes into it at this point. And to say "oh, i'm sure we'll deal with it, look at Pochettino/Koeman etc. etc." is just as much of a punt as sticking with LvG for me.
Say what you like about Mourinho, he'd have sorted our defence, straight off... he'd have gotten the best out of what we had, and culled/replaced the weak links, and De Gea wouldn't have been our player of the year...

He'd have gotten the absolute best out of Rooney, and there would have been no passengers...

I'm not actually a fan of Mourinho... never have been, he's a cunt, with no class... but he's a perfect example of the difference between the new and the old... Mourinho had Ferguson in his pocket, just like Guardiola did... managers like Guardiola and Mourinho learned from managers like Robson, Van Gall, and Ferguson... studied them, and aimed/worked out how to beat them... we should be looking at the managers who aim to beat Mourinho and Guardiola... the managers who have a NEW vision of the game... not managers whose cutting edge was 10/20 years ago
Alf, you've spent the best part of five years arguing with me that Jose is overrated with me saying he is underrated.

Do you still think he is better than he really is? Anyway, it doesn't matter. I agree with what you just posted. Hwr, I just don't trust any of the new breed to be any more better than the old skool. We were emptying our nuts on these pages about Klopp. Look at him now. He's having a bad time, but he is not shit because his club sold all his talent. Managers need time.

The only way you really know is to give someone some time. LVG has clearly got the rest of the season and a summer window. He will then be judged at Christmas, and if he cannot get the level of performance up by then, sure he has to go.

The club has clearly thought about LVG. They wanted stability and experience but if you want a new revolution clearly, LVG is not that person. Post-Taggart and Gollum, it is too risky to put in an new skool manager when the likes of Pep are not available. We had a chance with Jose - everyone knows it but Taggart and Charlton overruled it. Now people are shitting it because he's a cunt or classless. Fucking hell Taggart is no better or worse.

I blame LVG for the slow progress and for failing to produce a high level of football consistently but I don't blame him for bringing stability to the club in terms of results.

You can tell he is not going to build a dynasty - he knows that, he has a three year deal. He;s just taken his national side on a great world cup run, this is last hurrah of his career. He is a stop gap and after Gollum and the limited availability of other quality managerial talent, it is not a bad move - and possibly the only move.

We could have had Jose but we said fuck off, because the likes of Charlton, Taggart and Gill, didn't want to take the risk. That shows you a lot about United. I don't give a fuck about the Glazers, you hear nothing about them. It's plain and simple that the trio of Charlton, Taggart and Gill, run the club. Woodward is simply an executioner.

People need to manage and limit expectations. There are two other true clubs you need to look at and that United should be compare to. Liverpool and Arsenal. Wenger hasn't won a title for years and don't get me on the Evans, Souness, Houlier, Benitiez, Hodgson and Rogers axis of mostly piss and shit.

LVG is an intermediate step post-Gollum but to prepare the piste for the real deal.
Calvino
Reserves
Posts: 95
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: London

5 years ago

Oh how I hate van Gaal and the foolishness surrounding his football. This guy is at Old Trafford on an ego trip and we are paying the price for it. Starts us off with the brainless 3 at the back rubbish only to get back to the basics of four defenders. What sort of a man decides so quickly that Rafael is not good enough? Insists on Valencia there.

What sort of man sees that van Persie and Falcao could nerver work but insisted on playing both of them? And he does not trust Herrera which is a sin but will continue to play Fellaini. Fellaini will kill our moves with either a bad first touch or with a foul. Most often BOTH.

Who the heck is Daley Blind for the rough and tumble of the PL? The list is endless. The worst part is that he is convinced he is right. He is convinced that we are all wrong. Now Rooney plays up top and is scoring. What were you doing playing him in the holding role previously?

And the sale of Welbeck. That was the day I gave up on him if am very honest. I concluded he was on an ego trip there and then. Alfie is right, we need to get a proper manager in the right way. Not this haphazard thing we have done in two seasons.
Steggo
Legend
Posts: 1754
Joined: 6 years ago

5 years ago

I had high hopes for Van Gaal but last night summed up the man.He showed absolutely no ambition after half time and set his team up not to lose.There's always a tenseness about the team these days,there seems to be no room for freedom of expression and God knows how many combinations we are going to use before the end of the season.It's alright coming in with a philosophy but surely that philosophy has to fit with the footballing ethos and tradition of the club otherwise it is pointless. Yes,we missed out on Jose but I have a feeling he may end up at Old Trafford (his relationship with Abramovich is,apparently,spikey at the best of times.Also his ego means he would see getting United back on top as a great challenge).Until then I think we will be stuck with Van Gaal for at least the next season and hopefully things may change. Definitely should not get rid of him just yet,maybe just restrict spending.
User avatar
Alfonso Bedoya
Legend
Posts: 13448
Joined: 7 years ago

5 years ago

Calvino wrote:Oh how I hate van Gaal and the foolishness surrounding his football. This guy is at Old Trafford on an ego trip and we are paying the price for it. Starts us off with the brainless 3 at the back rubbish only to get back to the basics of four defenders. What sort of a man decides so quickly that Rafael is not good enough? Insists on Valencia there.

What sort of man sees that van Persie and Falcao could nerver work but insisted on playing both of them? And he does not trust Herrera which is a sin but will continue to play Fellaini. Fellaini will kill our moves with either a bad first touch or with a foul. Most often BOTH.

Who the heck is Daley Blind for the rough and tumble of the PL? The list is endless. The worst part is that he is convinced he is right. He is convinced that we are all wrong. Now Rooney plays up top and is scoring. What were you doing playing him in the holding role previously?

And the sale of Welbeck. That was the day I gave up on him if am very honest. I concluded he was on an ego trip there and then. Alfie is right, we need to get a proper manager in the right way. Not this haphazard thing we have done in two seasons.
CAL, you cheap Nigerian knock off... :))

How you doin Mate???

You've not been here for too long man... not good... not good at all...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
Calvino
Reserves
Posts: 95
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: London

5 years ago

Forgive me Alfie. It is twitter and having to keep two jobs - regular job in London and a European correspondent for supersport.com absolutely time consuming.

I made an eternal error of judgement in backing Moyes cos Sir Alex said we should. I thought this one was going to be better. After watching how he seemed more interested in shapes of play rather than the players I knew we were in trouble. He is an arrogant control freak. The players must hate him. Herrera certainly does.
zzzzzds
First Teamer
Posts: 327
Joined: 6 years ago

5 years ago

Now that the dust has settled on last nights disappointment I think a few people need to calm down a bit. There is too much reaction that is focussed on the result only. OK we lost but we more than matched one of our main rivals for CL place and only lost due to an horrendous mistake. On the whole it was fairly decent match and either side could have won it. It was one of those games that would be decided by a piece of brilliance or a complete cockup - unfortunately for us it was our cockup. We probably shaded the first half and pressed well high up but when we didn't win the ball back we looked very vulnerable to the counter attack. This I think was the reason for the two changes at half time was because we were consistently relying on Blind as our defensive midfield cover. Towards the end of the first half he (and we) were starting to look fucked. Van Gaal tried to address this by replacing Herrera with Carrick and he also hooked Shaw as he was struggling with Chamberlain. Whilst it was was trying to fix one problem, it was also affecting our attacking threat, but with our current crop of players we can't have it both ways - especially against decent opposition.

These games often turn on fine margins, like the ref not showing Bellerin a second yellow (almost as if he was determined to show the world he wouldn't be intimidated at Old Trafford). In most other games he gets sent off. Oliver then decides to take offence to ADM pulling his shirt, whereas in another game he seemed to think it was completely acceptable for Joe Hart to put his head into him in a clearly threatening and intimidating manner. Makes you wonder sometimes. In another incident Smalling manages to put the ball over the bar from a few yards out. Fine margins like I say. Today it went against us, but against Newcastle a similar size cockup by them went for us.

The truth is we played a lot better and at a higher tempo than in recent weeks so we should take some positives from this. Look back at some of the comments in this thread when the game was in progress and there are definite signs of positivity starting to come to the fore - not for all I acknowledge though. There is a sense now that we could score when we attack. If we play in a similar way against Spurs I think we will win the game. We battered them in the first half at White Hart Lane and should have put the game to bed.
User avatar
swampash
Legend
Posts: 4676
Joined: 6 years ago

5 years ago

All reasonably fair comment, except for me this really was a game of two halves. I agree with a fair bit of what you say, but for me the positives seemed to be very much concentrated into the first half. You might be right about the reasons for the half time changes, but for me they didn't work. We were on the back foot from then on. If changes were needed, then surely they should have been intended to improve the performance, not weaken it. And if they did, as per my view of the game, weaken the performance then the manager carries the can for the tactical decision he made.
Throwing Carrick into an (I think?) untried combination with Blind in a game of such importance was plain risky. Although I know nothing, I can think of alternatives that might have been more sensible.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
zzzzzds
First Teamer
Posts: 327
Joined: 6 years ago

5 years ago

swampash wrote:All reasonably fair comment, except for me this really was a game of two halves. I agree with a fair bit of what you say, but for me the positives seemed to be very much concentrated into the first half. You might be right about the reasons for the half time changes, but for me they didn't work. We were on the back foot from then on. If changes were needed, then surely they should have been intended to improve the performance, not weaken it. And if they did, as per my view of the game, weaken the performance then the manager carries the can for the tactical decision he made.
Throwing Carrick into an (I think?) untried combination with Blind in a game of such importance was plain risky. Although I know nothing, I can think of alternatives that might have been more sensible.
I get what you are saying Swampy that we diminished as an attacking threat after the changes, but it did help from a defensive point of view. I think if we carried on with the same team in the second half we could have been overrun. Blind was being asked to cover too much ground and it was starting to tell. After the break Arsenal didn't have that much going forward either until Valencia's error. They did get further chances once we were down to 10 men and chasing the game but that was to be expected. I don't think we would have lost the game if ADM hadn't been sent off. And it's not as if we didn't create threatening situations in the second half. ADM was taken out on the edge of the box when he was about to put Rooney through - and no foul given. Also Fellaini put ADM through only for him to pull his shot wide. And then there was the Smalling effort over the bar.

I think he might have been a bit hasty changing Shaw at the same time as it left very little room to make further changes as the second half developed, but replacing Herrera was probably the right thing to do considering how the first half ended. As regards other options, I think we are very limited in choices for the role Carrick was asked to do.
Post Reply