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Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:20 pm
by swampash
He's the captain. Would you take it off him?

Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:23 pm
by mr8kc
It's been done before. I hope he plays, up front and starts banging them in. But if we get a full on, 30 goals a season striker (whoever that would be) then he'd likely have to shift to get in the side. But I think LVG would do that to keep Rooneys normally reliable energy in the team.

Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:24 pm
by swampash
Also, would you include Rooney as one who could fight for a midfield slot alongside Herrera?

Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:35 pm
by Lazarus
Why ask Bman ? He doesn't rate Rooney, he'll give grudgingly that he's been decent but every game it's the same moaning until Rooney does put something together and then it's 'what he's paid for' or some nonsense. I know Rooney is getting on and not likely to get better but fuck he's treated shabbily by some on here.

Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:36 pm
by swampash
mr8kc wrote:It's been done before. I hope he plays, up front and starts banging them in. But if we get a full on, 30 goals a season striker (whoever that would be) then he'd likely have to shift to get in the side. But I think LVG would do that to keep Rooneys normally reliable energy in the team.
Now that's a sound argument.

Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:55 pm
by bman2
swampash wrote:He's the captain. Would you take it off him?
I'm not saying that. I'm more than happy for Rooney to start if he's earning his spot against tough competition, because when Rooney's good he's very good. The problem is that he's always been very weak psychologically, and when he goes off his game he gets shockingly bad. We've all seen it, when he's in one of his funks he can't even fucking trap or pass the ball. It's bizarre really, and it probably stems from being told at a young age that he was indispensable to club and country. What's frustrating is when he's in one of his slumps and we don't have anyone else to play instead of him, as happened at the end of last season.

On the whole he was decent last season. It could be that he's not well suited for the 9 role in the Van Gaal's version of 4-3-3, maybe playing alongside Herrera is the ideal for him.

Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:58 pm
by bman2
Lazarus wrote:Why ask Bman ? He doesn't rate Rooney, he'll give grudgingly that he's been decent but every game it's the same moaning until Rooney does put something together and then it's 'what he's paid for' or some nonsense. I know Rooney is getting on and not likely to get better but fuck he's treated shabbily by some on here.
Don't talk shite. When Rooney's great he's great. But I'm tired of people pretending that he's not a Jekyll and Hyde character. Tell me then, how do you feel about his performances at the end of last season? You want to go into next season with him as our only credible no.9? Do you think Van Gaal does, with his job and reputation depending on it?

Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:05 pm
by bman2
The fact is Rooney has scored over 20 goals in two of the last six league seasons, and on neither occasion did we win the league. That suggests to me that while Rooney is an excellent player, he has perhaps never been good enough for a top side to build its team and tactics around him, because you give up too much trying to accommodate his idiosyncrasies. That's not to say he's not good enough to be one of the stars in a very good team, because he clearly is.

Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:35 pm
by Spudiator
bman2 wrote:The fact is Rooney has scored over 20 goals in two of the last six league seasons, and on neither occasion did we win the league. That suggests to me that while Rooney is an excellent player, he has perhaps never been good enough for a top side to build its team and tactics around him, because you give up too much trying to accommodate his idiosyncrasies. That's not to say he's not good enough to be one of the stars in a very good team, because he clearly is.
You can hardly blame United not winning the league on Rooney! The most recent season he scored 20+ goals (27 as it goes) was when we lost the title on goal difference in the very last minute of the season, if you're blaming that on Rooney then you really are clutching at straws to make a weak argument! The time before that was when Chelsea scored over 100 goals to pip United to the title, again on the last day of the season, so it's not like accommodating Rooney up front was blowing United out of the water in the title chase. If anything, it seems like Rooney was carrying while his teammates were perhaps not pulling their weight, although if that was strictly true then I highly doubt we'd have finished within a point of the top.

Going back to the previous debate, I think the point was largely missed about having your best players out there. If there team as a whole works better with Rooney in the team, even if out of position, then yes, it is a good thing, but the fact is it doesn't work, because Rooney in midfield is almost entirely ineffectual, so it's effectively like playing with a man down. Put him somewhere on the pitch where he can make a difference or leave him on the bench.

Re: Squad

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:59 pm
by dozer
Lazarus wrote:Why ask Bman ? He doesn't rate Rooney, he'll give grudgingly that he's been decent but every game it's the same moaning until Rooney does put something together and then it's 'what he's paid for' or some nonsense. I know Rooney is getting on and not likely to get better but fuck he's treated shabbily by some on here.
He's not likely to get better than last season? It's possible, yes, and if it happens, it's very bad news if we don't have a better player to play there when Rooney's out of form/out of class.

Look, Rooney hasn't had a good season for a few consecutive years now and we should be buying a better prospect if there is one available.
Rooney has played quite a few games in midfield before, even when he was at his peak and he is an ok midfielder who can do a job but that's it. He was quite terrible there last season although LvG bizarrely tried him as a defensive midfielder.
Rooney as a winger? He was never that good there either and he's only lost more pace now.

In neither of these above scenarios can Rooney be a first team regular.
If Rooney surprises us and gives us a good season then well and good, he'll play obviously.
But I'm hoping for a game changer in our most critical position in attack i.e. the no 9 position - and Rooney hasn't been that player for a long time now.