OGS.....

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bman2
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The frustrating thing is knowing that nothing is going to change. The club have shown they’re not going to change anything about how things are run off the pitch. “Oh you want a director of football? OK, well you can call this guy the director of football then. See, job done!” Woodward is obviously going to stick with Ole, because he doesn’t challenge the way things happen at United. We’ll have a good shout of getting top four again, playing basic football with a good squad. We’re obviously never going to seriously challenge for the league or CL. Does anyone here have any expectation that we’ll make a credible go of competing for one of the big pots next season?

I don’t know if I can take another season of the same again. Half the squad getting new contracts because we can’t sell them.The exact same boring tactics and line ups every single game. Every. Single. Game. What is the point of even watching if the football and the result is predictable?
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bman2 wrote: 3 years ago The frustrating thing is knowing that nothing is going to change. The club have shown they’re not going to change anything about how things are run off the pitch. “Oh you want a director of football? OK, well you can call this guy the director of football then. See, job done!” Woodward is obviously going to stick with Ole, because he doesn’t challenge the way things happen at United. We’ll have a good shout of getting top four again, playing basic football with a good squad. We’re obviously never going to seriously challenge for the league or CL. Does anyone here have any expectation that we’ll make a credible go of competing for one of the big pots next season?

I don’t know if I can take another season of the same again. Half the squad getting new contracts because we can’t sell them.The exact same boring tactics and line ups every single game. Every. Single. Game. What is the point of even watching if the football and the result is predictable?
I'm not sure that's strictly true cos under Ole we've seen Ed swallow his pride a lot on poor / failed transfers. Like Sanchez, the worst signing in our history, axed. Fellaini, the icon of post-Fergie shitness, axed. Lukaku, the most expensive CF in football (possibly still?) despite being horrendously limited with an average goal return, axed. Smalling axed after a new deal. Jones all but axed after a new deal. Big experienced players Val and Young, axed.

The team Ole inherited that cost nearly half a bil and had the highest wage bill in sport, that failed to even come close to winning a major trophy, has been dismantled in the last couple of years much to the embarrassment of Ed who oversaw it all with a manager he went against the advice of Charlton, Fergie & others to hire. Pretty sure Ole's gotten rid of players we still haven't paid for. The financials showed 100 odd mil in transfers still to pay. It was 3/400 odd like over a year ago.

It's not cos Ole is an authoritatian ball buster that he's managed to oversee this, it's cos he's an ex legend and a popular appointment so he can get away with more.
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bman2
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I think some of that is overly positive. Still paying players like Jones. Lukaku, Smalling, Young and Herrera weren’t axed, they walked. We got decent money at least for Lukaku, but his value and reputation has definitely increased since going to Italy. In the meantime, we reinvested all the Lukaku money, and then some, on an average CB that more progressive managers would probably bench.

In the meantime, your hatred of Jose is blinding to the fact that we are still doing worse than we did under Jose. Lower league points. Knocked out of CL at the group stage. Not winning any of the lesser pots, so far.

We’ve probably improved the finances of the squad and all that, I think you’re right there. But I’d still hoped we’d at least have built on Jose’s football results. But at least if we manage to finish in the high 70s, while also having improved the squad and made some progress in sorting out the fucked up salary scale and toxicity under Jose, that’s a decent way to end an unusual season.
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bman2 wrote: 3 years ago I think some of that is overly positive. Still paying players like Jones. Lukaku, Smalling, Young and Herrera weren’t axed, they walked. We got decent money at least for Lukaku, but his value and reputation has definitely increased since going to Italy. In the meantime, we reinvested all the Lukaku money, and then some, on an average CB that more progressive managers would probably bench.

In the meantime, your hatred of Jose is blinding to the fact that we are still doing worse than we did under Jose. Lower league points. Knocked out of CL at the group stage. Not winning any of the lesser pots, so far.

We’ve probably improved the finances of the squad and all that, I think you’re right there. But I’d still hoped we’d at least have built on Jose’s football results. But at least if we manage to finish in the high 70s, while also having improved the squad and made some progress in sorting out the fucked up salary scale and toxicity under Jose, that’s a decent way to end an unusual season.
Me, hate Jose? Where did you get that idea from? You know the thing with Jose is nobody really hates him, especially now he's irrelevant. I couldn't give a shit about him. But his defenders - who are miniscule in number now - are so aggressively committed to stopping any negative comments, that they create a war between two factions. I'm not talking about you btw I'm talking about on twitter. They're called Jose incels but I think JAnon is better cos people are throwing themselves into the Jose cult and detonating their lives. It's unhealthy. And it's got worse because most people think he's crap now, so JAnon feel attacked from all sides

But anyway, I've talked about Ole's football not being good enough and the lack of philosophy many times in other threads. I was banging the philosophy drum back when it copped you tons of abuse. I'm talking about Ole's character, this idea that he's too weak to challenge the way things are. Maybe that's true, but the fact is he's still made some big steps behind the scenes which have embarrassed Ed - more so than any manager post-Fergie - like getting rid of players Ed just gave big new deals too, ditching the highest paid player in the Prem, the most expensive CF who by rights should be our number 9 for 10 years but only lasted 3 etc

I think your dislike of Ole, which is possibly going to become hate, and frustration at the status quo, is clouding your judgement. Cos you are one of the most sensible people on here who you can have a proper convo with about nuanced points like this.
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bman2
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Sid wrote: 3 years ago I think your dislike of Ole, which is possibly going to become hate, and frustration at the status quo, is clouding your judgement. Cos you are one of the most sensible people on here who you can have a proper convo with about nuanced points like this.
Fair enough. Though I don’t hate Ole, he’s still a great player for the club, nice person, and I think he’s done well for himself as manager. He definitely hasn’t shit the bed as United manager, which might have been expected given Cardiff and his managerial CV. I’d say the worst outcome for him so far is not getting through the CL group stage.

But I also don’t think we’re doing amazing given the investment in the squad. Even shedding the likes of Sanchez, we still do have a strong squad. I think most managers don’t do that much better or worse than you might expect given how much is spent on the squad in terms of wages and transfer fees.

So my frustration is more with the club. Our transfers recently have been ok, but only ok. The likes of City and Leicester still seem to make better transfers. So sticking with the same seems like complacency to me. And while I think Ole has been ok, and can be proud of how he’s done given he had never managed a big club before, from United’s perspective, the question is whether he is good enough to compete for the big tournaments?

I feel like Spurs’ decline under Jose shows again that United shit the bed in not hiring Pochettino. There’s a pretty clear demonstration that Pochettino made a big difference to that club: that consistently outperformed their spending on wages on transfers. And when he’s gone, it’s fallen apart, even under a big name manager.

For me the evidence suggests that under Poch United might have competed with the likes of City without having to spend quite as much as they did. And in terms of style and culture, Poch was a good fit: played progressive football, liked bringing through young players, liked sticking with a club for a long period and really lifting them up a level. Seems like a nice person too, which helps. PSG is actually a terrible fit for him, that’s a club for a hired gun manager like Mourinho or one of the good Italian tactical guys who hop from club to club.

So far, I think we’re OK. Not good, but OK. For a personal accomplishment, that’s great for Ole, because he hasn’t had the sort of managerial career that you’d even be sure the club would do OK under him. But I feel that the club missed the chance staring them in the face to try to make a Klopp or Guardiola-style modern tactical manager signing.
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bman2
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As a point of interest, apparently Pochettino is very expensive to hire, not because of his own personal wage demands, but because he has a really large team of coaches and trainers and back room staff he brings with him. I can understand United wondering if it was the right course to change so much of the coaching set up, that’s a valid concern (though who the fuck is qualified to judge that? Woodward??). But it also points to what you get with Pochettino — it’s not magic, it’s intensive and specialized coaching work that gets the best out of players. It’s a far cry from Phelan and the Old Boys club.
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Agree with all that, Bman. I think we might have peaked this season under Ole. It's hard to see how any improvements will come given that the Glazers are content with top 4 and we're facing huge covid losses. And we don't have the savvy recruitment / DoF set up to land a bargain. We might just have to ride this period out until the finances recover, or the european super league happens.
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Ole looks set for a new deal. It will be interesting to see how many years they'll give him.
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Jason
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Sid wrote: 3 years ago Ole looks set for a new deal. It will be interesting to see how many years they'll give him.
Its the "safe" option.

OGS won't publicly kick up a fuss to Ed or the owners, and "should" continue to get us top 4, which is all the glazers really want.

Saying he should, I wouldn't be so sure he will, and can just as easily see a 7th or 8th place finish next season as compared to a top 4 place.
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bman2
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I’ve seen several different journalists and commentators saying in the past few days that there are a number of our players who might want to leave in the summer, because they aren’t getting playing time. Including new signings like Beek and Telles. And of course if Pogba goes, I doubt we’ll replace him.
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