Scholes or Gerrard?

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Alfonso Bedoya
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3 years ago

Dosdamt wrote:Scholes every time, because his ability to control games and score goals wins seasons. Gerrard's inconsistent bomb forward want to be the man will win games, but he'll slip or fuck up, lose the ball, lose his head - whatever - and you'll lose the season.
Oh fuck me... not another one...

Are you another daft cunt who's going to blame the whole fuckin season on his "slip"?

Are you even aware of the numbers he put up that year?

Without him, Liverpool wouldn't have even been near the top to challenge for the title in the first place... him and Suarez carried that team... stop talking shit...
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bman2
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3 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Dosdamt wrote:Scholes every time, because his ability to control games and score goals wins seasons. Gerrard's inconsistent bomb forward want to be the man will win games, but he'll slip or fuck up, lose the ball, lose his head - whatever - and you'll lose the season.
Oh fuck me... not another one...

Are you another daft cunt who's going to blame the whole fuckin season on his "slip"?

Are you even aware of the numbers he put up that year?

Without him, Liverpool wouldn't have even been near the top to challenge for the title in the first place... him and Suarez carried that team... stop talking shit...
That's just the inverse of saying Carrick is shit because he doesn't score lots of goals or get loads of assists. Liverpool lost, and England lost, in large part because Gerrard was supposed to be playing like Carrick, but he wasn't able to. There were five players ahead of him whose main job was to score goals and get assists. Liverpool scored a fuckload, but they conceded a fuckload, and eventually that caught up with them over the course of the season. You just don't win the league these days being that open at the back and not being able to control games or slow the tempo down at times.

On the other hand, United won a lot of fucking silverware precisely because Carrick did play like Carrick.

So the real question is not whether Scholes was better than Gerrard, because he obviously fucking was, but whether Carrick was too. You can make a compelling case that he was. Ultimately, when it comes to the only objective measure, Carrick won far far more.

I think Pogba has a lot in common with Gerrard, though he's obviously much better on the dribble. But he's pretty iffy in a deeper role. Mourinho has the same problem with him that Benitez had with Gerrard. If he can figure it out, he'll be ace and a real consistent match-winner. But he'll probably never be the holder or the deep playmaker.
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bman2
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3 years ago

Yeah Lamps was probably better than Gerrard too. To be fair, I underrated Lamps for years because of club bias, but his quality shone in his latter years. he was ok in the deeper role for City.
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redzebs
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3 years ago

I'd agree with that even watching Lampard for City, fuck me, he dragged those shite hawks through some games when he was mid 30s!
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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just1n
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3 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
just1n wrote:
pint vulger wrote:Scholes was a fantastic player with equally brilliant teamates,Gerrard wad a fantastic player with a shed load of average players.
Scholes may indeed be the purist favourite but for me Gerrard woukd be the first name on the teamsheet of any side i would pick.
Anyway Bobby Charlton was the pair of them wrapped up in one.
Horseshit. Shop making excuses for that self promoting cunt.
He had a spine of Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Hyppia, and Reina and still won fuck all. Not fit to lace Keane or Viera's boots.
This obsession with Roy of the Rovers type midfielders is what has kept the English team back for years.
Come on Justin... I agree with most of your post, but there is a definite lack of respect there for Gerrard, who was clearly a great player... it's only those with a hatred of Liverpool who seem to NOT rate Gerrard... every other fucker does, including most of the players and managers who've played against him... some of the arguments against giving him his due over the years, mostly from United fans are nothing short of ridiculous... our very own Bmans assessment of him is a classic example...

Whether you'd prefer Scholes, Lampard, Keane, or Vieira is one thing... to deny his quality is just petty...
I don't have a problem with Gerrard the player. I have an issue with the overhyped bullshit that every single fucking pundit comes out with. It's no secret that arguably his best performances at Liverpool came when he did not have to play as a 8 or a 6. So imo he isn't this great midfielder that everyone says he is.
He was fantastic in a more attacking role. His shooting was incredible. I just think because he could run and tackle he gets thrown in the hat with proper midfielders who could run a game. Gerrard was never capable of controlling the tempo of a game. He always forced the issue. He would constantly play that cross hollywood pass out wide. He never had the intelligence to play short passes in midfield as he was too impatient. He ended up trying to do everything and would leave gaping holes in midfield due to indiscipline.
I'm not saying he was a bad player. Just not a world class central midfielder. A world class attacking player for sure.
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Snoopcousins
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3 years ago

He was one of the players j really wanted at United.... Back in those days we hoovered up the best players from the other teams but Gerard was really never going to leave -esp for us.... Fergie would have loved to have had him
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Alfonso Bedoya
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2 years ago

bman2 wrote:
Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Dosdamt wrote:Scholes every time, because his ability to control games and score goals wins seasons. Gerrard's inconsistent bomb forward want to be the man will win games, but he'll slip or fuck up, lose the ball, lose his head - whatever - and you'll lose the season.
Oh fuck me... not another one...

Are you another daft cunt who's going to blame the whole fuckin season on his "slip"?

Are you even aware of the numbers he put up that year?

Without him, Liverpool wouldn't have even been near the top to challenge for the title in the first place... him and Suarez carried that team... stop talking shit...
That's just the inverse of saying Carrick is shit because he doesn't score lots of goals or get loads of assists. Liverpool lost, and England lost, in large part because Gerrard was supposed to be playing like Carrick, but he wasn't able to. There were five players ahead of him whose main job was to score goals and get assists. Liverpool scored a fuckload, but they conceded a fuckload, and eventually that caught up with them over the course of the season. You just don't win the league these days being that open at the back and not being able to control games or slow the tempo down at times.

On the other hand, United won a lot of fucking silverware precisely because Carrick did play like Carrick.

So the real question is not whether Scholes was better than Gerrard, because he obviously fucking was, but whether Carrick was too. You can make a compelling case that he was. Ultimately, when it comes to the only objective measure, Carrick won far far more.

I think Pogba has a lot in common with Gerrard, though he's obviously much better on the dribble. But he's pretty iffy in a deeper role. Mourinho has the same problem with him that Benitez had with Gerrard. If he can figure it out, he'll be ace and a real consistent match-winner. But he'll probably never be the holder or the deep playmaker.
Right... you see the problem with your argument, is all that rationalising over Gerrards inability to protect the back 4, like say Carrick... all that clever analysis, and pointing out that while they scored a lot, they conceded a lot as well, your argument suggesting that was Gerrards fault, should paint a picture of a rubbish season, and yeah, ultimately, they lost... but your entire argument seems to conveniently ignore the fact, that they were leading the league for most of the season... they were right there, within spitting distance of winning the fuckin title, AND it was only a slip of foot... the same sort of slip that has happened to MANY players... a bit of bad luck... and though we will never know for sure, it is a very reasonable argument to suggest that HAD HE NOT SLIPPED, Liverpool would have won the title...

You can say Gerrards slip cost them the title... that's the hilarious reality, that United will forever get to smack him over the head with... but you just can't make the argument that he failed in his position as a holding mid, no matter how you reckon he played, or should have played the position, because the fact is, they so nearly won it, with him playing it...
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bman2
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2 years ago

Well I was pointing out at the time that he was not doing a good job before the slip. Defensively that is. If they hadn't dropped points with shit defending on prior occasions, the slip wouldn't have cost them so much. It's not so much that I blame the slip for them losing the league, more that I think the slip was an almost comical demonstration of one of that team's fundamental problems, which was always there. I do think it mad that even after the slip, he went to the WC explicitly to do "the carrick role", but carrick wasn't even in the squad.

At the end of the day Rogers was a bluffer. They went hell for leather, but you just can't win the league shipping so many goals. Rogers didn't have a clue about how to go about tightening it up while still being an attacking force.

The counter example is Mourinho's Chelsea the season before last: he tightened it up at the back in the second half of the season, at the expense of the attack, with two DMs, and it got them across the line.

On the other hand, Liverpool supporters were probably pretty thoroughly entertained that season, there's a lot to be said for that.
pint vulger
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2 years ago

I suppose it was stupid / too much to ask that Utd supporters may argue / discuss the merits of an opponent especially one from a fierce rival v such an homegrown favourite , I bet i,m in minority too on here why the accident by Gerrard was infuriating to me ,hilarious to others in that City were the side to benefit from Gerrards cock up.
Just because your a Utd supporter doesnt prevent you from appreciating the opposistion ,for instance Dalgliesh was annoyingly up there with best English football has ever seen.
Some of the arguments against Gerrard are just stupid ,( moreover biased) but I accept that some genuinely feel Scholes was better fair do,s,its a close call and I suppose you could say its impossible to seperate them ,Lampard too ( whos stats are tremendous)
I would have loved him to have come to Utd at his peak ( impossible I know) i,m sure the scoucers think similar about Scholes.
But in summary Gerrard was a game changer with his incredible engine and shooting prowess and that just tips the balance for me.
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redzebs
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2 years ago

Just ask yourself if it would be easier to buy a Scholes or easier to buy a Gerrard.

Always easier to buy an attacking midfielder who can put up good numbers imho.
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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