Brexit

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bman2
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3 years ago

Alf, the most useful thing you've done here is admit that you're not persuadable by rational argument and that you're operating purely on the basis of emotion. And that's what's letting people like Farage run riot with feel good fantasies. What you call scare tactics is simply an increasingly frantic reality banging on your front door saying "wake up you drunk bastard, your house is on fire!". I don't know why you find the negative consequences so hard to believe: the 1960s & 1970s aren't so long ago, remember how Britain was then? The irony is that four decades of being in Europe has made Britain so prosperous that people don't realize it can be undone.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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3 years ago

bman2 wrote:Alf, the most useful thing you've done here is admit that you're not persuadable by rational argument and that you're operating purely on the basis of emotion. And that's what's letting people like Farage run riot with feel good fantasies. What you call scare tactics is simply an increasingly frantic reality banging on your front door saying "wake up you drunk bastard, your house is on fire!". I don't know why you find the negative consequences so hard to believe: the 1960s & 1970s aren't so long ago, remember how Britain was then? The irony is that four decades of being in Europe has made Britain so prosperous that people don't realize it can be undone.
And there you go again... yours is the only "rational argument"... and no, I don't remember Britain of the 60s/70s, wasn't here... but I was in Canada, when we had NAFTA forced down our throats, and Canadians have never forgiven Mulroney for that... you can talk your economic bullshit all day long... I've no interest, or the education, to argue it with you... but therein lies the biggest problem for people like me, the vast majority in fact... we have to rely on people who are supposed to know what they're talking about to give us the information we need to make an informed decision... and then there's smart mouth, "know-it-alls" such as yourself who make it even harder to decide, because you talk a lot of shit, and in fact you're actually very good at talking a lot of shit, much better at it than me for sure, but ultimately, I reckon you're just as naive about the deep workings of global economics as the rest of us plebs... so, what's left is we have to decide who to trust... and that's very hard, because the fuckers doing the most talking, are exactly the fuckers I don't trust, and SHOULDN'T TRUST... but that is irrational, according to you... whatever... the biggest problem you're going to have of making your "rational argument", is while you sit there, throwing about snidey, smart arsed comments about us all being ignorant, right wing dupes, and Farage supporters, you seem to be completely oblivious to the company you're sitting amongst...

"What you call scare tactics is simply an increasingly frantic reality banging on your front door saying "wake up you drunk bastard, your house is on fire!"."

Right... says the fuckers who started the fire!
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Sid
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3 years ago

Steggo wrote:
marlon wrote:
Alfonso Bedoya wrote: Britain is a democracy... full of flaws, and corrupt, for sure, but at it's core is the fundamental right to change our government... and IF we can sort out our own hearts and minds, then we can actually change how this country is run...
For now. The first thing Cameron did when he was elected was to make sure that a PM couldn't be removed mid-term. He basically made himself invulnerable for 4 years. It's why none of those petitions to remove him that got millions of signatures never got debated.
Can't find the Act of Parliament that would change the constitution to allow such a move. This maybe a Tory party rule,certainly not been an Act.He can and will be removed mid term if he loses the referendum and there is a vote of 'No Confidence'.

As regards to the petitions that directly ask to remove Cameron I can find this- https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104471

Others, in a similar vein, have attracted thousands rather than millions of votes. The advice on starting a petition and getting it debated in Parliament are quite specific,and rightly so,otherwise Parliament would be inundated with pointless nonsense.

As for the 'racism' in the film I find it hard to understand why anyone who mentions immigration should be termed a 'racist'. It completely ignores the genuine concerns of millions of people in this country who have had their communities changed,their public services,including education and health, stretched to the limits and their jobs put under threat. All this without any consultation or advice. I don't know where you live but take a trip to the East of England, Peterborough,Boston etc to find out how unlimited immigration impacts on the local people. But I suppose they're white English working class so they must be racist and,of course,their opinion doesn't count anyway.No,the cry of 'racist' is the easy option to stifle debate.

I am not a racist but I appreciate there are always two sides to a story and,in my opinion,people should not have decisions foisted on them without consultation or the right to reply.
A petition is hopeless. It might get your lollipop lady reinstated but it's not going to bring about major change like axing a prime minister.
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Snoopcousins
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3 years ago

bman2 wrote:
Steggo wrote:
swampash wrote:Fat lazy EMP's drawing a huge wedge for doing little of constructive value seems to be top of the mandate list if you ask me.
Schulz and Juncker are two of the biggest tossers to walk the earth.
And here's what they earn and these unelected nobodies decide our fate- http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... -unelected

Also if you add 50,000 plus people who work for the EU, plus thousands who work that are 'hidden' you can actually appreciate just how large and expensive this bureaucratic machine is.

If you are undecided have a watch of this -
Wow, that is some desperate right wing agitprop. Wake up people. My lord, that is just dishonest trash and not even subtle about it. Couldn't get past the first few minutes. If this is what is shaping people's votes then it's time to stick a fork in England, folks, it's done.
Tbh I completely agree with Bernie here....
That video had me proper cringing from the start- i was struggling to hear any actual facts or arguments - just lots of scaremongering and taking away our rights

I actually know fuck all about Politics and have been reading Themis thread with interest hoping to learn something and to see what the craic is about voting in or out...

I'm a layman to all this and was hoping to be swayed one way or the other....but I still have no fuckimg clue.
Halfway between the gutter and the stars

“I don't have any real proof and I can't be arsed to find any. But I bet I’m right” - Sid, 6th March 2018
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Alfonso Bedoya
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3 years ago

Snoopcousins wrote:
bman2 wrote:
Steggo wrote:
swampash wrote:Fat lazy EMP's drawing a huge wedge for doing little of constructive value seems to be top of the mandate list if you ask me.
Schulz and Juncker are two of the biggest tossers to walk the earth.
And here's what they earn and these unelected nobodies decide our fate- http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... -unelected

Also if you add 50,000 plus people who work for the EU, plus thousands who work that are 'hidden' you can actually appreciate just how large and expensive this bureaucratic machine is.

If you are undecided have a watch of this -
Wow, that is some desperate right wing agitprop. Wake up people. My lord, that is just dishonest trash and not even subtle about it. Couldn't get past the first few minutes. If this is what is shaping people's votes then it's time to stick a fork in England, folks, it's done.
Tbh I completely agree with Bernie here....
That video had me proper cringing from the start- i was struggling to hear any actual facts or arguments - just lots of scaremongering and taking away our rights

I actually know fuck all about Politics and have been reading Themis thread with interest hoping to learn something and to see what the craic is about voting in or out...

I'm a layman to all this and was hoping to be swayed one way or the other....but I still have no fuckimg clue.
Yep... there's too many talking heads, too much scare mongering, and too little real world info useful to the layman to make the choice with your head... trust your heart Snoops...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Snoopcousins
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3 years ago

Alf - my problem now is even when/if I do understand it all - I'm in Northern Ireland and that's a whole different kettle of fish!
Halfway between the gutter and the stars

“I don't have any real proof and I can't be arsed to find any. But I bet I’m right” - Sid, 6th March 2018
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Lazarus
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3 years ago

Snoopcousins wrote:Alf - my problem now is even when/if I do understand it all - I'm in Northern Ireland and that's a whole different kettle of fish!
Coming from here does put a whole new spin on it. My biggest fear is that if the border arrangements change it'll be seen by some as an excuse to start killing people again. And then there will be the inevitable calls for a secure border which will start a whole new raft of political shin kicking. And then we're off to the races again.
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Steggo
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3 years ago

Lazarus wrote:
Snoopcousins wrote:Alf - my problem now is even when/if I do understand it all - I'm in Northern Ireland and that's a whole different kettle of fish!
Coming from here does put a whole new spin on it. My biggest fear is that if the border arrangements change it'll be seen by some as an excuse to start killing people again. And then there will be the inevitable calls for a secure border which will start a whole new raft of political shin kicking. And then we're off to the races again.
It's a problem that I have not considered. Surely any government would want to maintain the status quo and keep the border as it is now. If they do change the arrangements how will it lead to an excuse to start the killings again?
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Lazarus
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3 years ago

Steggo wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Snoopcousins wrote:Alf - my problem now is even when/if I do understand it all - I'm in Northern Ireland and that's a whole different kettle of fish!
Coming from here does put a whole new spin on it. My biggest fear is that if the border arrangements change it'll be seen by some as an excuse to start killing people again. And then there will be the inevitable calls for a secure border which will start a whole new raft of political shin kicking. And then we're off to the races again.
It's a problem that I have not considered. Surely any government would want to maintain the status quo and keep the border as it is now. If they do change the arrangements how will it lead to an excuse to start the killings again?
As it stands here at the minute, things are good for most people, if not good relatively peaceful. But there is still a minority on both sides who would take us back down that road. At the moment the main protagonist seem to be the hardline Republicans. Given that freedom of movement across the border has been the norm for years, any change to that will be seen as provocative. On the Loyalist side of the argument there has been a long standing belief that border checkpoints should be in place to stop the free movement of terrorists across the border. One incident of violence has the potential to reinvigorate the checkpoint argument thus stirring a hornets nest of emotions and feelings. I would bet that an out vote would play into the hands of those who want a united Ireland, they can carry out an attack abandon the car in the south and hey presto there will be calls for better security. Once that happens even on a small scale the situation as it exists now will be gradually undone. This is a very simple explanation of my point of view, the situation is way more complicated than that. Btw i grew up in a nationalist/republican area.
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Snoopcousins
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3 years ago

Yea I agree- but it's really not relatively peaceful here at the minute. The threat level is severe -with numerous attacks on police and security forces frequently foiled which regularly never makes the news.
A border change will ignite the nationalists/republicans and whatever they do will be an excuse for the loyalists to stir trouble.
They hardly need an excuse- the flag protests and Ardoyne situation case in point
Halfway between the gutter and the stars

“I don't have any real proof and I can't be arsed to find any. But I bet I’m right” - Sid, 6th March 2018
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