Brexit

Political Debate
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 23084
Joined: 6 years ago

2 months ago

swampash wrote:
2 months ago
The undemocratic engineering of Von der Leyen into EU Commission President is unfortunate - going to give the Brexit fuckwits more ammunition.
Unfortunate implies it was a mistake, rather than the standard undemocratic process that is default within the EU. You can't be defending dictatorial moves like that just because you want to remain. It's an indefensible move.
User avatar
swampash
Legend
Posts: 4313
Joined: 5 years ago

2 months ago

...no, it was meant to indicate that it unfortunately gives even more ammo to the Brexit camp, which I am in total opposition to, Sid. I agree it was totally undemocratic and typical of the EU too.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 23084
Joined: 6 years ago

2 months ago

swampash wrote:
2 months ago
...no, it was meant to indicate that it unfortunately gives even more ammo to the Brexit camp, which I am in total opposition to, Sid. I agree it was totally undemocratic and typical of the EU too.
Fair dos. I can't be fucked with either side tbh. I just want the whole brexit shit to end... But you can feel it gearing back up again for autumn.
User avatar
FuB
Legend
Posts: 5395
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: Littlewoods Data Entry Department

2 months ago

Sid wrote:
2 months ago
swampash wrote:
2 months ago
...no, it was meant to indicate that it unfortunately gives even more ammo to the Brexit camp, which I am in total opposition to, Sid. I agree it was totally undemocratic and typical of the EU too.
Fair dos. I can't be fucked with either side tbh. I just want the whole brexit shit to end... But you can feel it gearing back up again for autumn.
it'll never fucking end, mate... even if/when the UK exits, there'll be knock-on shit and further shit that we may not have even considered yet.

in summary... shit.
I may be able to fix a forum but I can't fix a fuckwit
User avatar
marlon
Legend
Posts: 5200
Joined: 6 years ago

2 months ago

So now abortion in NI and a no deal without the consent of parliament depends on NI not forming a government in the next few months? Both goods things obviously, but the rules and their loopholes are so dumb.


As for brexit, nothing has changed in Parliament, so I can't see Johnson getting a deal through and he's against a ref, so we'll get an election, which will be a waste of time because parliament doesn't seem capable of solving this. A referendum is the only way through.
User avatar
swampash
Legend
Posts: 4313
Joined: 5 years ago

2 months ago

I still reckon we are heading for a general election marlon. And it’s probably the right way to sort this mess out as it will force each party to declare their position. The Liberal Party have made significant gains by being straight about where they stand while Labour‘s lack of candidness has cost them. I sill see a general election delivering a Labour minority government, which would force them to seek an accommodation with a reinforced Liberal Party and the SNP, with a referendum on the final deal versus remain being the price of support. Probably also an enhanced devolution package for Scotland as part of the mix.
Just my humble opinion...
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
User avatar
marlon
Legend
Posts: 5200
Joined: 6 years ago

2 months ago

I agree we'll probably get an election. And if a labour coalition could win they'd could probably stay together long enough to negotiate some single market deal no one wants and put it to a ref, then we'll remain, the coalition will fall apart and we'll have another election.

But who wins an election will probably depend on which side uses tactical voting more. Labour got so many votes last time, at least in part because the polls were showing a huge tory victory and so the centre and left rallied around them. Labour have lost that goodwill from the lib dems and greens and the tories have their own issues with the brexit party. Impossible to say now which side would edge it and whether their parliamentary majority would be enough to actually deliver anything at all.
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 23084
Joined: 6 years ago

2 months ago

marlon wrote:
2 months ago
So now abortion in NI and a no deal without the consent of parliament depends on NI not forming a government in the next few months? Both goods things obviously, but the rules and their loopholes are so dumb.


As for brexit, nothing has changed in Parliament, so I can't see Johnson getting a deal through and he's against a ref, so we'll get an election, which will be a waste of time because parliament doesn't seem capable of solving this. A referendum is the only way through.
I doubt another ref will solve this when the polls suggest leave will win again / it will be close. Parliament has a better chance of solving it, although still slim, because a lot of this shite is down to tory infighting and the brexit party pulling em apart.

Btw still waiting on that left wing case for the EU. Asked 3 times now over about 3 months.
User avatar
marlon
Legend
Posts: 5200
Joined: 6 years ago

2 months ago

It would be a ref on an actual brexit rather than a horizon of possibilities and I doubt no deal or a deal that looks anything like the one we negotiated would attract nearly as much support. A lot has to change in parliament to build a coalition that would back the deal we have or no deal. A diff PM does nothing. A genuinely better deal might, but that seems unlikely.

As I told you before (you can go find my reply) I don't have one. I'm not pro EU. But it's very clear what and who leave represents and it's also very clear that our governments are 100% on board with all the worst parts of the EU - and under May's plan we'd continue to collaborate with their external security and border regimes after we'd left. And I doubt Corbyn would do any different. We don't magically become a better country after we leave. Same for the EU. Leaving accomplishes nothing except stripping us of freedoms and advancing the cause of nationalism and the far right.
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 23084
Joined: 6 years ago

2 months ago

marlon wrote:
2 months ago
It would be a ref on an actual brexit rather than a horizon of possibilities and I doubt no deal or a deal that looks anything like the one we negotiated would attract nearly as much support. A lot has to change in parliament to build a coalition that would back the deal we have or no deal. A diff PM does nothing. A genuinely better deal might, but that seems unlikely.

As I told you before (you can go find my reply) I don't have one. I'm not pro EU. But it's very clear what and who leave represents and it's also very clear that our governments are 100% on board with all the worst parts of the EU - and under May's plan we'd continue to collaborate with their external security and border regimes after we'd left. And I doubt Corbyn would do any different. We don't magically become a better country after we leave. Same for the EU. Leaving accomplishes nothing except stripping us of freedoms and advancing the cause of nationalism and the far right.
Fair dos. I disagree with the latter though. If we leave and elect a labour government (unlikely) the prospects for britain are a lot better, for health, jobs, investment etc and this will force nationalism and the far right to take a backseat - because that's what's fuelling a lot of this shit.

If you're an actual socialist, the picture I'm getting from those that know (the academics, journos and researchers I've posted) shows socialism is impossible while inside the EU because of its capitalist / neolib rules which are written into its constitution. They don't allow state monopolies.

But we've done that to death so lets move on.
Post Reply