Coronavirus

Political Debate
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swampash
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6 months ago

Just been watching a programme on German TV looking at how different countries are dealing with the virus. Interesting that Sweden have put the vulnerable into isolation and have no restrictions at present on the rest of the population. The seem to be adopting the herd immunity strategy, which I raised as a question a few days ago.
I wonder how their approach will work in comparison.
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FuB
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6 months ago

I think maybe you need to factor in population size and land area per capita, swampash. Sweden has an awful lot of isolation by distance anyway and their social model tends to be a lot of people living alone.

As has already been pointed out plenty times on this thread, herd immunity is the end game either way. It's how you get there that matters and how many deaths you want to stack up in the process.

Anyway... is it all still a big fuss over nothing for you?
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Sid
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6 months ago

FuB wrote:
6 months ago
Sid wrote:
6 months ago
FuB wrote:
6 months ago
Sid wrote:
6 months ago
Global deaths pass 30,000

But the death toll of some countries could yet be much higher than reported, experts say, as unlike the U.S., France and Italy for instance do not count deaths that take place in nursing homes or in homes among their virus numbers.
Can't really say i know anything about France and how they deal with it, nor can i confirm or deny the suggestion about Italy but it seems highly unlikely to me that a country posting such horrendous numbers is engaging in hiding a few. I'd be inclined to suggest that the only place being fucking honest is Italy. If you're planning on sanitising the numbers in any way, surely you might as well do it on a grand scale, like the UK is?

Where did you get this statement attributed to "experts", Sid?
The guardian. Everything I've posted (stats etc) has been from their live blog. It's impossible to link cos it's not a separate webpage, it's just on their stream, otherwise I'd not just cut and paste the statements like. I suppose the nature of a live blog means it's easy to talk shit cos hacks don't have chance to check statements. Not that they do that anymore tbf.
I agree that most of this live blog stuff is just news ticker bollocks that's getting quoted everywhere without any effort whatsoever put in to corroborate things. What do you think to my point above though? Just seems pretty bizarre to suggest there's potential cooking of the books here as if the U.S. - a place well known to have a fucked up health system - is any shining example of transparency. I'd wager it's much easier there to die and not be counted.
Yeah there's a bit of US nationalism in that. There has been throughout all this tbf. Trump keeps saying we're doing amazing, better than so and so countries etc. The US will skew their stats too. I know some states aren't including deaths in care homes etc but also stuff like people who die of an underlying health reason aren't being included, even though it was corona clearly played a part too. And there are those that have died and haven't been tested so they're not 100% sure, so they don't put it down as a corona death. The 30k total deaths is dubious as fuck. Point is it's bad, worse than the flu, and hasn't even really got going yet.
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bman2
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6 months ago

The government is trying to get airline stewards to help staff their new "Nightingale hospitals". There's obviously not enough trained medical staff to go around, ten years of austerity and Brexit has NHS staff numbers razor thin as is. My advice: don't end up at a Nightingale hospital. Going to be fucking death traps.
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Sid
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6 months ago

bman2 wrote:
6 months ago
The government is trying to get airline stewards to help staff their new "Nightingale hospitals". There's obviously not enough trained medical staff to go around, ten years of austerity and Brexit has NHS staff numbers razor thin as is. My advice: don't end up at a Nightingale hospital. Going to be fucking death traps.
It goes further back than 10 years. The underfunding happened under the centrist / liberals too. Blair was key in the cost cutting and privatisation of the NHS.

Chickens are coming home to roost. For us that is. The rich and powerful have private healthcare.
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dozer
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6 months ago

What is this herd immunity strategy?
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swampash
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6 months ago

Dozer, I think the basic idea is that you withdraw the most vulnerable and then let the fit and healthy get infected. They get only mild symptoms. You then have a large population of people who have the antibodies and are immune and won’t infect the vulnerable when they come back on the streets.
I think that’s it, but others will no doubt correct this if I am wrong.
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Sid
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6 months ago

I don't think Dominic Cummings expected himself and half the cabinet to get coronavirus when he was divising this herd immunity strategy
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FuB
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6 months ago

swampash wrote:
6 months ago
Dozer, I think the basic idea is that you withdraw the most vulnerable and then let the fit and healthy get infected. They get only mild symptoms. You then have a large population of people who have the antibodies and are immune and won’t infect the vulnerable when they come back on the streets.
I think that’s it, but others will no doubt correct this if I am wrong.
There's no such thing as a "herd immunity strategy". There's such a thing as "herd immunity" and there are ways to get to it. Suggesting there is any sort of strategy involved is total nonsense unless it's a known disease and you have an immunisation capability. Who are "the most vulnerable" and how the fuck do you determine the answer to that with a hitherto unknown disease? How can you devise a strategy without knowing all the variables? Any use of the word "strategy" with the UK (or other) government policy which involves hoping everyone gets it and not too many people die is a fucking awful use of the word, implying intelligence where there clearly is none.

still, as expected you've avoided the question i posed last time so i'll ask again: is it still just a big fuss over nothing for you, swampash?
I may be able to fix a forum but I can't fix a fuckwit
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swampash
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6 months ago

If there's no such thing as a herd immunity strategy, why was it raised here in Germany as a possibility when health experts first began debating how best to deal with the problem. It also seems to be the strategy that Sweden are following.
As for your question – I’m simply not getting drawn into a petty public sniping exercise, especially when some people’s nerves are clearly a bit raw. You can always PM if you want to.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
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