Re: Manchester, and now London

Political Debate
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Lazarus
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3 years ago

redzebs wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
redzebs wrote:
Sid wrote:
redzebs wrote:Rant, turning every tragedy into a fierce debate since 2010. Every time. Like, every time.
You can't have political violence like this and not mention politics though, can't talk about it in a void. There's a time for grieving like but it's not long before you start thinking how do we stop a fucking horrific thing like this from happening, and that's when you have to deal with politics
Didn't say I disagreed with anyone, only that when something happens in the world and a thread is opened, it takes about two pages before everyone's rowing. I agree there needs to be discussions. But for example until the dust settles, I'm more interested to know that now we know it was directly IS claimed, not IS inspired, and seems to have been a fuckin really strong massive impact blast compared to some of the shot we've seen, before we get into the politics which we will. The attacker was British so was he in Syria and did he make it himself or is there an IS professional IED maker still free because that's an awful lot of knowledge experience etc. to risk on one belt/rucksack. Initially I personally want to know should we potentially expect more before the dust settles and we debate everything.

Also once we get to debating, can someone remember in case I forgot, Trump calling the bomber a loser repeatedly, ok if it's your own country but with different standards, ideologies, ethics, ways of speaking about tragedy, thought it was a bit too much over our line sticking your nose in crass despite intentions. Anyone else see that?
When i hear that from him it feels exactly the same as the rhetoric i've heard for years from politicians here, "We'll never give in to terror", "we will not negotiate with terrorists", "we'll never let terrorists change our values", "there'll be no hiding place for terrorists and those that support them". Bullshit and bluster.

Aye but every Western developed country usually tries to put on a stiff upper lip when another is attacked, especially if it's your country but just his speech and the modern slightly more crass way talking about losers etc. was just a bit cringeworthy.

Fuck me, right ok, I'm sorry I even mentioned the Northern Southern thing, I was just making an observation that that stereotype of saying what needs to be said and no more and a really dry, to the point were until you get to know them, can make you wonder what you've done to piss them off or do they just not talk much stereotype of Mancunians came through in a lot of interviews.

Some of my Manc mates are dry as fuck but once you get to know them they are a proper laugh.

It wasn't a massive deal, I was just pointing it out after watching a guy from Manchester talk about getting blown 30 feet across a room in a tone he could have been telling ya what he had planned for tea. That's it. That's my whole point regarding that. Just thought it was a thing worth mentioning.
So it's because he didn't dress what he thinks up in flowery political language that's bugging you. Yet he's saying exactly what they've always said. It's the same as labeling other groups scum. Loser/scum it's the same condescending, righteous tone.
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redzebs
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3 years ago

Does it matter why I found it uncormtable to watch?
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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3 years ago

http://thepeoplesperson.com/2017/05/23/ ... ck-182154/

That actually choked me up a bit...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Mumford
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3 years ago

I'm not sure who is to blame for the events of last night.
What I do know is that a lot of these problems are caused by people having imaginary friends, and sometimes those imaginary friends don't get along with each other.
That in itself is fine, if you have a leader who can keep all the people and their imaginary friends under control, remove that and all hell breaks loose. When Bush gave the order to hunt down Hussain the die was struck, he removed that area of the middle east the man who was keeping all these fundamentalists under control, maybe not in ways the west appreciated,but he kept them under control.
Then after the Iraq war 2, tribes starting infighting, there were insurgencies, and naturlly a domiant group arose, Hussain would have crushed them before they had a chance to draw breath.

There is no doubt in my mind we (USA, UK and "The Coalition") started this, and now we have opened a Panadora's box and lost the lid.

We are also now paying for our immigration policy of the 70's and 80's, I fear for my Grandchildren and their children of what this coountry will become when the 2nd and 3rd generation of todays immigrants reach an age when they too can be radicalised, because I can see no end to this whilst the Muslim community of Britain remains secretive and secular, the majority do not want to integ rate into our culture, they do not want to adapt to the western way of life. There is already in Reading and Bradford, and I am sure many other places of high immigration when Sharia law is the law, and Muslims protect Muslims from the British police and the laws of the land.
Take all the courage you have left
And waste it on fixing all the problems that you made in your own head
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Snoopcousins
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3 years ago

I agree but I fear the mob will be all over that!
Halfway between the gutter and the stars

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Sid
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3 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
marlon wrote:
Snoopcousins wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Snoopcousins wrote:I honestly don't get all this "it's our fault, we brought it on ourselves" stuff....
Maybe I'm not as politically astute as some on here but I think that's bullcrap...
Yes maybe we don't need to get involved in everything around the world but these people believe in their "cause" and Christianity is in the way of that

The only way I see us bringing anything on ourselves is letting everyone and anyone into the UK and not kicking out those that we know are inciting hatred and stirring things up- they can't live here and also preach against the ways of the UK.
But you don't see anything wrong with Britain letting itself into other peoples countries, taking over and then calling the people who lived there terrorists... "I honestly don't get all this "it's our fault, we brought it on ourselves" stuff...." Remember Maggie called Mandela a terrorist, remember the Queen meeting Martin McGuinness?
Don't remember seeing any UK attacks targeting just innocent people....

Plenty of people think Mandela is a terrorist including my family (I am African)....
I'm not a fan of Queen meeting McGuiness but can see why was done.
Only issues I see are maybe getting involved in too many squabbles and trying to fix places that are way too complicated
Is it the 'just' that's important there? How much collateral damage is acceptable to you? We destroyed Iraq to get one man (or oil, but the excuse was Saddam's a baddie). (What do you think war is?) And the thousands of drone attacks across the middle east and africa that we hear nothing about? We're not even at war, we're just murdering innocent people all over the world. Ad no bad pr for the government because our soldiers lives aren't at risk.

We don't just tear families apart, we destroy infrastructure - education, food supplies, hospitals. The majority of endless 'lost generations' are peaceful - they're just trying to survive. But you create millions of people who have no hope for their future, it's not surprising some turn to violence. And then we sell weapons to countries who we know support terrorists. This isn't something that's just happening to us, we're playing a role in radicalising and arming them. And then our media gives every terrorist a week of non-stop coverage - the glorious infamy they want.

On the immigration/deportation point. Who is the 'everyone' we're letting in? You want a muslim ban? And where do you deport british citizens to? And the 'ways of the UK' is an extraordinarily broad term to suppress free speech. No suffragettes (who were also terrorists), no abolilitionism, no democracy. We've hardly reached some utopic peak.

Also curious to know what you've got against Mandela?
Top Rant, that...
Aye, put it better than I could
pint vulger
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3 years ago

A disaster that has effected us and neighbours mainly speechless.
So down.
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just1n
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3 years ago

Snoopcousins wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Snoopcousins wrote:I honestly don't get all this "it's our fault, we brought it on ourselves" stuff....
Maybe I'm not as politically astute as some on here but I think that's bullcrap...
Yes maybe we don't need to get involved in everything around the world but these people believe in their "cause" and Christianity is in the way of that

The only way I see us bringing anything on ourselves is letting everyone and anyone into the UK and not kicking out those that we know are inciting hatred and stirring things up- they can't live here and also preach against the ways of the UK.
But you don't see anything wrong with Britain letting itself into other peoples countries, taking over and then calling the people who lived there terrorists... "I honestly don't get all this "it's our fault, we brought it on ourselves" stuff...." Remember Maggie called Mandela a terrorist, remember the Queen meeting Martin McGuinness?
Don't remember seeing any UK attacks targeting just innocent people....

Plenty of people think Mandela is a terrorist including my family (I am African)....
I'm not a fan of Queen meeting McGuiness but can see why was done.
Only issues I see are maybe getting involved in too many squabbles and trying to fix places that are way too complicated
Interesting. I am fairly certain that the 75% black population of South Africa see Nelson Mandela as a freedom fighter. It's only the minority 8% white population who would see him as been a terrorist. Funny that. The same people who enjoyed years of benefits based on the colour of their skin. Best jobs, best land, and best education, who have the gall to cry about been hard done by. The same people who fled South Africa when it was obvious that the old regime would lose the elections. And immigrated to bastions of racial equality destinations like Australia. FFS!

Thatcher and Reagan were cunts of the highest order. They constantly blocked any attempt at sanctions against apartheid SA. They would say that the sanctions would do more harm to the blacks. While supporting the SA apartheid military with the wars across the border in Mozambique and Angola. And benefitting from the mineral wealth of South Africa.

Now the governments are happy to support sanctions against Iraq when they tried to get rid of Saddam in the 1990's. The same Saddam they armed and trained in the first place. They gave him every fucking weapon under the sun because he was fighting the evil in Iran.

Madeleine Albright was asked this question on 60 minutes about the affect of the crippling sanctions - "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"

She answered - I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it.


and you wonder why the Middle East hates the West.

And remember that Iran were best buddies with the West when the Shah was in power. But they had the nerve to overthrow the Shah and vote for the change to an Islamic State with Ayatollah Khomeini in charge. Imagine that, they voted, but it wasn't the vote we wanted...

So much for bringing democracy and freedom to the Middle East.
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Pikey McScum
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3 years ago

The thing that's stuck with me the most - other than the loss of young lives, a fucking tragedy no matter where it is - is how the people of Manchester have rallied together to help, support each other.

That's the aspect which has touched me the most - whether it be people donating blood in their hundreds, a homeless man rushing to help people in the immediate aftermath, demonstrations of unity. Those are powerful images.

My heart goes out to anyone affected by it, including anyone here
"that is probably the worst post ive ever read" - Knobby, 28th April 2015
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Lazarus
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3 years ago

redzebs wrote:Does it matter why I found it uncormtable to watch?
You brought it up......
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