General Election June 8 th

Political Debate
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Alfonso Bedoya
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2 years ago

Lazarus wrote:
Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
Sid wrote:Can you imagine this happening to May

Class. He looks like he's really enjoying it. Even if he doesn't win this time i think the groundswell of support will carry him afterwards and he'll be able to cement his leadership. The cuts are about to deepen and people will not stand for it and he'll be the only opposition. And he hasn't done it using soundbites, rhetoric, PR or lies. He hasn't had the support of the press.
I don't think so Coop... if Labour don't win, I think they'll blame it all on Corbyn and they'll hound him out... he may not go... but I reckon the Labour party will implode if he refuses... and that might sound ok, but I think the reality is, it would leave the Tories free to loot and pillage for years...
Tbf Alf you did say that you thought they'd have a go a him. I'm sticking to my guns that it'll strengthen him in the end. Hopefully!
Yeah, but to be fair, I honestly thought the Tories were going to win outright, like most did... that would have left Corbyns campaign looking relatively ordinary... very pleased to be wrong... but the fact that he took so much power away from the Tories, in the face of so much pissy behaviour and lack of support from many in his own party, puts the whole thing in a different perspective...

Those mutinous fucks should be climbing out from under their rocks, stating clearly that they were wrong, asking for forgiveness, and vowing to now get behind him, to help sell his message... because this isn't over... if May can't sort herself out, then they'll have to swap her out for a new leader, rumoured to be Bozo Boris... and that's just the downside... there is a slight possibility of another election before the end of the year... with proper support, Corbyn would probably win that one at a canter, with a big majority... but if these cunts come out and start this, "not fit to lead" shit all over again, then they need shooting!
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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FuB
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2 years ago

Lazarus wrote:
FuB wrote:
Sid wrote:
redzebs wrote:Peter Robinson is what you're clinging onto?

Moi hahahahahahahaha, his wife was blowing off a 20 year old and he was signing the cheques. Fuck be, Ulster resistance etc.

Mate we've had 40 years of killing each other, no one cares what anyone literally in the whole country did as a youth.

That's what you can't get your head around, when it comes to here, no one cares, we make memes and joke and get embarrassed by all our politicians antics.

Dig away, only you and pro labour supporters will give a fuck.

Snoop, "NI comrades". Ahahahahahahahahaha, stop it Sid, you've me in stitches.

The Official Ira googled them yet? No? Weird.

They were more left wing, the original ira, they wanted a Marxist state, the fuckin IRA that blew the fuck out of most things you may have heard of said what's left wing and what's a Matxist you cunts, we just want a United Ireland and to kill Brits, they ran the officials out of town and took over as the PROVISIONAL IRA who bombed the fuck out of you!!!

See if there was a choice of cutting us loose and Corbyn getting in as PM, you'd take it wouldn't you.

Mate NI is completely it's own micro climate, you'll never understand unless you live here a long time. Your front page headlines don't even register here, we just flick to the horses unless you're young and politically minded then it still doesn't matter because for at least another generation or two, people will vote on religious lines. Too many to make any progressive candidate have any chance.
Yes we know you've been blowing each other up for ages, you've had it worse than everyone else etc

But that doesn't stop everybody else talking about this shite

You can just sit there and think oh these silly privileged english people what mugs etc.

And I'm not clinging onto Robinson - it's a fact, he was part of a terrorist group. Corbyn got nailed for peace talks with the IRA, where's the outrage for tories going into coalition with this mob? Alright there is some, but imagine if Corbyn met with em... It'd be hysterical
do you not mean alternative fact there?

everything I've read says the Ulster Resistance was a paramilitary group. It's not the same thing, Sid... look at the photos. They're like a farmers' Dad's army.
I don't get what your doing Fub, splitting hairs about the difference between terrorist/paramilitary? Sids doing what i knew he'd do, wanted him to do, he's researching, trying to understand. You understanding of UR as a farmer's Dads army is way off the mark. And he's right about the double standard that Corbyn is being attacked on. Zebs keeps banging on about it but he knows in his heart that given the dirty hands on all politicians related to NI, Corbyn's involvement in the greater scheme of things is small fry.
ok...

i'm not at all surprised to find my understanding to be wide of the mark. I have stated several times in this thread that I appreciate finally getting a fucking lesson on this stuff. it's all murky and clearly it's been wilfully kept that way by the factions at play.

Whatever you might think, i'm also pleased that Sid has gone off to try and research this. I did the same thing. What I can't be doing with is just accepting one article that's been rehashed here there and everywhere as definite truth and not casting a critical and skeptical eye because it immediately suits your agenda.

How the fuck did we get to this? Sid can be amazed that i'm not some old codger but I'm quite disappointed that simply wanting to have the truth corroborated can suddenly make you the enemy with Sid's go to phrase of "you're right wing". Sid... I HAVE seen the last things you've posted so I don't want this to turn ugly again... I do really appreciate that you've stood down a bit but I do feel that I want to make the point I have.

I just want facts... and I want to feel they really ARE facts. Is that really so cuntish in a world where we're now seeing all the fascists telling us that anything they don't like is fake news?
I may be able to fix a forum but I can't fix a fuckwit
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redzebs
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2 years ago

Fact Norn Ireland won with half a squad in the heat away from home, England scraped a draw against Scotland, he won't do any research into the UDP or PUP, he'll dig and dig, same as if it was the moderate sdlp etc. and Corbyn had won, its mud slinging,

I couldn't give a fuck, I've put up with them for years here, they voted Tory policies through, only now they'll be part of a coalition.

Kinda makes no difference to us apart from better deals, if we get more money from Westminster plus they insist on a view labour policies like triple lock etc. Then ain't that better than a Tory majority?
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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just1n
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2 years ago

[color=#008000]GLAZERS[/color] [color=#FF8000]OUT![/color]
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redzebs
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2 years ago

Up a hoods house end tbf
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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Lazarus
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2 years ago

FuB wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
FuB wrote:
Sid wrote:
redzebs wrote:Peter Robinson is what you're clinging onto?

Moi hahahahahahahaha, his wife was blowing off a 20 year old and he was signing the cheques. Fuck be, Ulster resistance etc.

Mate we've had 40 years of killing each other, no one cares what anyone literally in the whole country did as a youth.

That's what you can't get your head around, when it comes to here, no one cares, we make memes and joke and get embarrassed by all our politicians antics.

Dig away, only you and pro labour supporters will give a fuck.

Snoop, "NI comrades". Ahahahahahahahahaha, stop it Sid, you've me in stitches.

The Official Ira googled them yet? No? Weird.

They were more left wing, the original ira, they wanted a Marxist state, the fuckin IRA that blew the fuck out of most things you may have heard of said what's left wing and what's a Matxist you cunts, we just want a United Ireland and to kill Brits, they ran the officials out of town and took over as the PROVISIONAL IRA who bombed the fuck out of you!!!

See if there was a choice of cutting us loose and Corbyn getting in as PM, you'd take it wouldn't you.

Mate NI is completely it's own micro climate, you'll never understand unless you live here a long time. Your front page headlines don't even register here, we just flick to the horses unless you're young and politically minded then it still doesn't matter because for at least another generation or two, people will vote on religious lines. Too many to make any progressive candidate have any chance.
Yes we know you've been blowing each other up for ages, you've had it worse than everyone else etc

But that doesn't stop everybody else talking about this shite

You can just sit there and think oh these silly privileged english people what mugs etc.

And I'm not clinging onto Robinson - it's a fact, he was part of a terrorist group. Corbyn got nailed for peace talks with the IRA, where's the outrage for tories going into coalition with this mob? Alright there is some, but imagine if Corbyn met with em... It'd be hysterical
do you not mean alternative fact there?

everything I've read says the Ulster Resistance was a paramilitary group. It's not the same thing, Sid... look at the photos. They're like a farmers' Dad's army.
I don't get what your doing Fub, splitting hairs about the difference between terrorist/paramilitary? Sids doing what i knew he'd do, wanted him to do, he's researching, trying to understand. You understanding of UR as a farmer's Dads army is way off the mark. And he's right about the double standard that Corbyn is being attacked on. Zebs keeps banging on about it but he knows in his heart that given the dirty hands on all politicians related to NI, Corbyn's involvement in the greater scheme of things is small fry.
ok...

i'm not at all surprised to find my understanding to be wide of the mark. I have stated several times in this thread that I appreciate finally getting a fucking lesson on this stuff. it's all murky and clearly it's been wilfully kept that way by the factions at play.

Whatever you might think, i'm also pleased that Sid has gone off to try and research this. I did the same thing. What I can't be doing with is just accepting one article that's been rehashed here there and everywhere as definite truth and not casting a critical and skeptical eye because it immediately suits your agenda.

How the fuck did we get to this? Sid can be amazed that i'm not some old codger but I'm quite disappointed that simply wanting to have the truth corroborated can suddenly make you the enemy with Sid's go to phrase of "you're right wing". Sid... I HAVE seen the last things you've posted so I don't want this to turn ugly again... I do really appreciate that you've stood down a bit but I do feel that I want to make the point I have.

I just want facts... and I want to feel they really ARE facts. Is that really so cuntish in a world where we're now seeing all the fascists telling us that anything they don't like is fake news?
The way i see it is, Sid's being Sid and that's it. Tbh both him and Zeb's have differing views but they both get stuck in and try to be honest about their opinions and not really fall out. This place needs more of that.

What i'm interested in now is all of you ENGLISH having to take a hard look at the politics of Ireland because it will be front and center of your lives at such a crucial time. We've had these discussions on here before and i've always felt that you lot have put a toe in the shallow end at best. I get why, but now the dirty mess is getting in your boat.

You'll have to look again at what the people here have had to deal with. I want you to draw comparisons with the situation here and how you now deal with the very real problem of terror coming from the Islamic community, the rise of the right, the little Englander mindset and my comparisons with the DUP and the GOP. I feel like i've been dealing with all this shit my whole life, felt like a second class citizen half my life some relatively fresh eyes asking Zeb's and Snoops how they feel about they're community's support of the DUP. (The SF/IRA thing has been done to death.) I'm not even talking about their links to terror, i'm more interested in what you think of their policies, human rights, civil rights, religion, policing, immigration, education etc and place those things in a historical perspective.
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Lazarus
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2 years ago

redzebs wrote:Up a hoods house end tbf
:)) That made me laugh!

...but you know that not just anybody gets to paint those murals. Arleen will have them out with a brush to get that shifted pronto and if vanishes what will that say? She'd be shooting herself in the foot taking it down now that i think about it....
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Lazarus
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2 years ago

"Arlene Foster has defended meeting a UDA chief within 48 hours of the loyalist feud murder in Bangor of Colin Horner in front of his three-year-old son.

The DUP leader yesterday admitted meeting UDA boss Jackie McDonald in south Belfast. The Ulster Political Research Group, which provides political advice to the UDA, yesterday endorsed the DUP's Emma Little Pengelly for the South Belfast constituency."

So in modern politics is this not suspicious, outrageous? Like Corbyn i think it's fine, you have to talk to terrorists if you want peace. Marginalizing them only makes then bitter, angry and determined to be noticed.
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FuB
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2 years ago

Lazarus wrote:
FuB wrote: ok...

i'm not at all surprised to find my understanding to be wide of the mark. I have stated several times in this thread that I appreciate finally getting a fucking lesson on this stuff. it's all murky and clearly it's been wilfully kept that way by the factions at play.

Whatever you might think, i'm also pleased that Sid has gone off to try and research this. I did the same thing. What I can't be doing with is just accepting one article that's been rehashed here there and everywhere as definite truth and not casting a critical and skeptical eye because it immediately suits your agenda.

How the fuck did we get to this? Sid can be amazed that i'm not some old codger but I'm quite disappointed that simply wanting to have the truth corroborated can suddenly make you the enemy with Sid's go to phrase of "you're right wing". Sid... I HAVE seen the last things you've posted so I don't want this to turn ugly again... I do really appreciate that you've stood down a bit but I do feel that I want to make the point I have.

I just want facts... and I want to feel they really ARE facts. Is that really so cuntish in a world where we're now seeing all the fascists telling us that anything they don't like is fake news?
The way i see it is, Sid's being Sid and that's it. Tbh both him and Zeb's have differing views but they both get stuck in and try to be honest about their opinions and not really fall out. This place needs more of that.

What i'm interested in now is all of you ENGLISH having to take a hard look at the politics of Ireland because it will be front and center of your lives at such a crucial time. We've had these discussions on here before and i've always felt that you lot have put a toe in the shallow end at best. I get why, but now the dirty mess is getting in your boat.

You'll have to look again at what the people here have had to deal with. I want you to draw comparisons with the situation here and how you now deal with the very real problem of terror coming from the Islamic community, the rise of the right, the little Englander mindset and my comparisons with the DUP and the GOP. I feel like i've been dealing with all this shit my whole life, felt like a second class citizen half my life some relatively fresh eyes asking Zeb's and Snoops how they feel about they're community's support of the DUP. (The SF/IRA thing has been done to death.) I'm not even talking about their links to terror, i'm more interested in what you think of their policies, human rights, civil rights, religion, policing, immigration, education etc and place those things in a historical perspective.

i'm in complete agreement that Sid is just being Sid. He likes to wind people up (and i'm no different), obviously cares about the world and clearly has a keen intellect. I wish he'd just be a bit more discerning about things because you just water down your argument if you don't build it on facts. He's had a go at me a couple of times when I've pressed the buttons too much and it always comes down to me apparently not offering opinions (pretty sure i'm offering one now and have offered plenty) but i'm not often inclined to offer an opinion that I can't stand behind and defend with facts. conjecture is useful but only if you accept that it's conjecture and appreciating when you really don't know things is the best path to enlightening yourself.

With regards to NI... as an Englishman who had much of his formative childhood in the 80s, I'm pretty sure I was fucking traumatised by the IRA but too young to know what it really meant. By the time I'd got a handle on the world, things in NI were calming down and, to my detriment, I lost track of their importance... it's only more recently (and not just because of the election) that I've realised this is a major hole in my understanding - it's specifically due to discussions on this forum that I've had cause to think more deeply on things. This is exactly the attitude you're calling out, Laz, and you're right to.
I may be able to fix a forum but I can't fix a fuckwit
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